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-   -   whats better for cams?? (http://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l-v8-technical-discussions/697656-whats-better-for-cams.html)

DTMR 07-03-2013 09:44 AM

whats better for cams??
 
Just graduated college and got some money as a present! I have the FRPP hot rods in my car and I wanted to get either a FRPP manifold or FRPP throttle body for my mustang. I already have the intake and Longtubes so What would give me more of a gain? the manifold or the throttle?

hootie_john 07-03-2013 09:55 AM

Neither of those are generally going to be good "bang for the buck" mods. The only benefit to the manifold is that it already has the delete plates in it, but you can get those for ~$300, half the price of the manifold. The manifold doesn't shine until you spin her up pretty tight, which on a stock bottom end, isn't good for engine longevity. The throttle bodies aren't a gain unless you're going big FI (like over 600HP), and generally cause more problems than they are worth.

SpartaPerformance 07-03-2013 06:11 PM

Manifold is a waste. Manifold is for a car that N/A has cams and valvetrain to make power at 7,500RPM. What are your long term goals?

JCON 07-04-2013 12:17 AM

I would take that money and get rear lower control arms or an aluminum drive shaft. Both will help you go faster!

DTMR 07-04-2013 09:19 AM

well I just got coilovers before so I wanted to do another power mod, and I also want to do the frpp heads (either the stage 1 or the high flow) and eventually do a fully forged bottom end (maybe with a stroker , dont know yet) bump the compression up to 10.1 and if I'm not happy with the N/A setup, throw a blower or turbo on it. (of course this will be an ongoing project). Also, I do like to rev out the motor and would like to keep it witht he ability to rev high, but I keep hearing people go back and fourth with the dexterity of the bottom end. Half the people say that these blocks love to rev, the other say its dangerous. My car pulls super hard all the way to 6800 and I planned on bumping it up to 7k (only if my power is still climbing after heads. Also this is a car that I take drag racing, corner carving, and I want to take it to autocross

Ricardo 07-05-2013 04:51 PM

I bet a dyno run will show you a different story on your car pulling hard to 6800. It's most likely just momentum. Been looking at dyno graphs lately and most cars with long tube/FRPP cams as the main mods show HP begin to drop around 6200ish RPM and TQ goes off the cliff around 5500ish RPM. Average TQ around 6500 RPM is 250 lbs. Not much different than a car without these two mods, the dyno graphs look a lot alike, just cams/headers give you bigger numbers before the drop off in power.
I'm no pro but I think you should focus more on getting some useable TQ down low than trying to nickel and dime for the top end. Supercharge it!

clowe1965 07-05-2013 08:32 PM

If you wants to start autocrossing then buying a second set of tires is probably your best bet, you can use them in all racing and keep a set for driving on the road. I've got 285s all around and it makes a huge difference. Plus I can rotate them :-D. Not a power mod but given your budget (assuming less than 1000) you might be able to pick up a cheap set of rims/tires. Looking at your mod list it doesn't look like anything else is left for the engine without replacing either the top or bottom end before you'll gain power. All else fails, save the dough towards your next step.

JCON 07-06-2013 08:31 AM

Heads would be awesome but for the price of heads and a stroker kit, you can get a nice high output super charger which will make more than those two combined. Now if your end goal is 700+ rwhp, then start building but just know the FRPP Hot Rods are not a blower cam. Also I know you love revving but as has been stated, why so high? Going an extra 200 RPMs isn't going to give you much of an edge over anyone else be ause of where your power is. Should you decide to push 7,000, you will need new springs and cam phasers and most people go with a lockout. Depending in power, you'll also need to look at new rods and consider new pistons (although a stroke kit I think comes with these). Rods are considered the weak point after 500rwhp but the slightest detonation that high in power can shatter pistons among other parts. I would say you really need to figure out what you want to do with the car and as early as possible. Otherwise you'll know a lot about what's good for different objectives and not have a lot of money because you bought and changed yours frequently.

Simon1 07-06-2013 10:38 AM

A properly tuned FI S197 will rev to 7000 making peak power right at or before 7k.

The heads, cams, intake stuff is cool, but for less money you can make more moneywith a quality blower.

DTMR 07-06-2013 06:14 PM

well I dont want to supercharge it until after I build the bottom end, its just not worth it to me to push that power on rods that will blow. I planned on a blower after I do a nice bottom end build which I cannot afford at this point in time, I cant even afford a supercharger right now if I wanted to. I talked with manley about bottom end possibilites and I will go with manley rods/pistons and a kellog crank. I want everything forged. I want to do heads first though. I was looking for a decent mod that would bring in some more power for me right now that wasnt over 650$

DTMR 07-06-2013 06:15 PM

even if I dont go stroker I just want piece of mind that my motor can handle what I put to it

DTMR 07-06-2013 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon1 (Post 8243468)
A properly tuned FI S197 will rev to 7000 making peak power right at or before 7k.

The heads, cams, intake stuff is cool, but for less money you can make more moneywith a quality blower.

what setup are you running 11.05's with?

DTMR 07-06-2013 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clowe1965 (Post 8243239)
If you wants to start autocrossing then buying a second set of tires is probably your best bet, you can use them in all racing and keep a set for driving on the road. I've got 285s all around and it makes a huge difference. Plus I can rotate them :-D. Not a power mod but given your budget (assuming less than 1000) you might be able to pick up a cheap set of rims/tires. Looking at your mod list it doesn't look like anything else is left for the engine without replacing either the top or bottom end before you'll gain power. All else fails, save the dough towards your next step.

id like to get wider tires I made a mistake with mine and thats why I went with the v3s so I can adjust them to make it ready for autocross days!

clowe1965 07-06-2013 08:08 PM

A mistake made you get coil overs? I'm confused. Koni's are adjustable enough for me, these cars, unless you practice and know how to adjust a full setup like Strano, perform very poorly in autocross as compared to the competition. Fastest run was 70ish seconds at one last weekend, and I got an 84. Different classes but its all about fun. I do have caster/camber plates and use them, the 2-3 degree adjustability makes a huge difference, even before the new tires.

What about another option? Buy some turn plates and alignment tools to get your front end squared away going to and from the track. Saves some money in the long run on alignments and definitely saves tire wear if you're driving 1-3 hours to events with screwed up alignment settings. Turn plates are 400-600, and alignment tools are 150-300.

JCON 07-06-2013 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTMR (Post 8243656)
I want to do heads first though. I was looking for a decent mod that would bring in some more power for me right now that wasnt over 650$

You know FRPP heads are between $1,900 and $3,500 right? I think you really need to think about how much power you want to make. For autocross, 400rwhp is great, for road course 500rwhp is probably a max, and for dragging, the sky is the limit. If you build a motor and bump compression and cam it and super/turbo-charge it, you're going to make more power than I think is useable for the first two and its going to cost a serious amount and you still need to strengthen the chassis and finish the suspension.

DTMR 07-07-2013 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCON (Post 8243782)
You know FRPP heads are between $1,900 and $3,500 right? I think you really need to think about how much power you want to make. For autocross, 400rwhp is great, for road course 500rwhp is probably a max, and for dragging, the sky is the limit. If you build a motor and bump compression and cam it and super/turbo-charge it, you're going to make more power than I think is useable for the first two and its going to cost a serious amount and you still need to strengthen the chassis and finish the suspension.

I know haha thats why I wanted to get a throttle or a manifold first. I'm not trying to build a single purpose car. Its my car that I want to be able to take to different events. I want to be able to go drag racing and then go take some twists.

JCON 07-07-2013 06:23 PM

The answer to various types of racing is a turbo with a boost controller and multiple sets of tires!

CMcNam 07-08-2013 07:39 AM

Probably not the answer you want, but I say set the money aside and save up for an engine build and forced induction.


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