Steve@Tasca

No trouble at all, I'm here to help and I know I always appreciate tips from people with more experience than I have on a given subject (meaning my friend the tech).

Ricardo

And I wonder how many of said Techs put in a fresh plug to find it hard to thread. No worries, just keep going huh? They'll never find out since these plugs last a long time.

And this is why I take my car to the dealership as an absolute last resort.

MBDiagMan

I share your concern. Many years ago, I saw how many commission mechanics operated. IF they still operate the same way, they wouldn't give any thought at all to at least cleaning the hole before replacing the plugs. They might not bother with anti sieze either.

Steve@Tasca

If you think this is a dealership tech trick alone you are mistaken, from what I've been able to find it's common practice in the industry in general and a well known trick with the 3V Mustang guys.

I still fail to see how removing the plugs this way could damage the threads in any way, the threads are not the problem with removing the plugs, it's the sleeves that go down in to the head which is a smaller diameter than the threads.

About the worst that could happen is the sleeve would snap off as they're already prone to do, basically the upper is going to simply unthread regardless of how they're removed but you're less likely to snap them off when using the impact.

EDIT- This procedure is not endorsed or encouraged by Ford it's employees, techs or myself. Anyone using this procedure is doing so of their own free will with full knowledge that it contradicts the Ford service procedures and any damage caused is solely the responsibility of the person attempting it.

Steve@Tasca

Sloppy mechanics are everywhere, in dealerships and at independent shops, it's like any other profession. Some people are exceptionally good at their jobs and some are exceptionally bad.

That's why when I can't do a job myself and I have to bring my car in I know exactly who's going to work on it, unfortunately that's not a luxury everyone has.

-Steve

Schmalgar

Indeed. That's one of the regrets I still have from the last time I moved... I also moved away from the long time mechanic that I trusted...

Steve@Tasca

I can do and have done almost everything on a car myself right down to engine and trans rebuilds, about the only exception is A/C work and some of the really tough diagnostic stuff.

I do have a few contacts for that stuff though

MBDiagMan

Although I'm personally leary of the impact/warm engine trick, I am convinced that you are correct about pulling the threads. The pulling the threads thinking is a holdover from the 4.6/5.4 engines that only have a little over three threads holding the plugs. On those, IMHO, it is imperative to remove them ONLY from a COLD engine.

It sounds as if the dealer techs, have learned that on 3 valves the impact works. If it DOES work and they carefully clean the hole and use the proper anti-sieze, I think it's fine. Customers simply want their plugs changed. Most of them don't care if it's done with an impact wrench, or a special puller tool, they just want them changed.

Where the question comes into play is in such a case where there is indeed damage invoked by the tech. If this happens, THEN the key is how the customer is dealt with in such a situation.

I have not twisted bolts on automobiles for a living since the early seventies. I got my ASE certification a few years ago at a point when I thought I was going to have haul my wrenches somewhere to make a living. In the old days I saw more shenanigans by commission mechanics than you can imagine. It was the days of valve jobs and inframe overhauls. I saw more than one crooked mechanic, pour naptha in an inverted head to see which valves leaked and then grind ONLY those valves. I saw them push pistons far enough out of the cylinder to get a ring groove cleaner on the piston, slap some rings on it and knock it back in the hole with no cylinder/piston measurement or inspection. IMHO this was theivery.

In the case of the impact/warm engine 3 valve plug change, as long as they are passing the savings on to the customer and there is no damage involved and the holes are cleaned, anti-sieze used, I don't see it as a problem.

It IS a problem if the customer is paying for significantly more shop rate than is actually necessary.

My $0.02,

MBDiagMan

Let's add this one to the discussion shall we? A modified version of the impact wrench use. Worth watching:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/12...tructions.html

Ricardo

The more you two attempt to justify bypassing specific instructions put out by Ford engineers that designed the engine, the more you convince me to stay away from dealerships.

If it works so well and so many techs are doing this, then by all means up-channel it to Ford so they can review and change their instructions.

That aside, I think Steve does not understand simple mechanics. It's not about the electrode. Yeah we all know the sticking is caused by the space between the head and the electrode being filled with deposits. What is missing in this discussion is the fact that we are dealing with two different types of metal. The head is aluminum. The threads on the plug are a harder metal. If you two haven't figured out how this works when an impact wrench is thrown into the mix, then I seriously think you shouldn't be working at a dealership on cars. Or even dispensing this advice at all. In fact, where is Ford service rep that is on this forum? I'd like to see him/her chime in about their techs doing this.

I invite you to include them in this discussion. Not trying to come across as rude, as a Ford customer I simply want to be reassured that Ford is on the same page as their service techs and said techs know what they are doing.