newbie here, what's best bang for your buck HP gains?
05-12-2016, 11:01 AM
#11
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 2,260
basically its like this........
small gains - big money = bolt ons
big money - big gains = forced induction
its been discussed over and over, but its been proven if you want anything close to a large gain in power and torque a power adder is a must, and since nitrous is basically only economical at the track, forced induction is the go to.
small gains - big money = bolt ons
big money - big gains = forced induction
its been discussed over and over, but its been proven if you want anything close to a large gain in power and torque a power adder is a must, and since nitrous is basically only economical at the track, forced induction is the go to.
05-12-2016, 03:15 PM
#12
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 2,073
Eh...I still contest it.
For one, you don't need the CMDP's if you get the Ford Racing Intake. (side note, did Steeda stop selling their "economy" CMDP's?). I made mine for $50, I would never spend $280 on those.
Additionally I'd knock $1200 off for the TB and Ford Racing intake anyway. The throttle body nets almost nothing and the intake isn't worth getting for a street car IMO. And how many people really buy the electric water pump? Plus, I don't know why you would buy a $400 dyno tune for a bolt-on n/a setup (not to mention the fact Lito can do a tune for you for $150 if you really want one). And you need the tuner with a supercharger too.
IMO that's still not an apples to apples comparison. Superchargers come as a complete package,, whereas you're a bit more free to piece together an n/a setup and shop around for the best deals on parts. Not trying to be a dick but I feel like all of you guys that try to show the comparison of n/a parts prices vs a supercharger cherry-pick the most expensive parts to make the comparison. For example, the $1260 you have listed for the JBA system...you don't need the over axle pipes (not to mention you really don't need a 3" system) and everyone gets an axle back regardless. You can buy the JBA natural headers (with 2.5" collector) and 2.5" off road H pipe for $688, and that's only if you can't find a better deal on them somewhere else like I did.
Just my 2 cents.
For one, you don't need the CMDP's if you get the Ford Racing Intake. (side note, did Steeda stop selling their "economy" CMDP's?). I made mine for $50, I would never spend $280 on those.
Additionally I'd knock $1200 off for the TB and Ford Racing intake anyway. The throttle body nets almost nothing and the intake isn't worth getting for a street car IMO. And how many people really buy the electric water pump? Plus, I don't know why you would buy a $400 dyno tune for a bolt-on n/a setup (not to mention the fact Lito can do a tune for you for $150 if you really want one). And you need the tuner with a supercharger too.
IMO that's still not an apples to apples comparison. Superchargers come as a complete package,, whereas you're a bit more free to piece together an n/a setup and shop around for the best deals on parts. Not trying to be a dick but I feel like all of you guys that try to show the comparison of n/a parts prices vs a supercharger cherry-pick the most expensive parts to make the comparison. For example, the $1260 you have listed for the JBA system...you don't need the over axle pipes (not to mention you really don't need a 3" system) and everyone gets an axle back regardless. You can buy the JBA natural headers (with 2.5" collector) and 2.5" off road H pipe for $688, and that's only if you can't find a better deal on them somewhere else like I did.
Just my 2 cents.
There is certainly a point where the easy horsepower on an NA build shoots up on diminishing returns, the best bang for buck on an NA build is in the tune and maybe a drop in K&N air filter, an actual CAI on top of that might gain you 5HP, most of the gain is in the tune and getting what Ford left on the table. I had stated a dyno tune because one you do cams and all that airflow, a typical mail-order tune is still going to leave some power on the table... Lito, hey the customer service he is said to give makes his "mail-order" tunes pretty much a dyno tune and you get the advantage of the weak Venezuelan Bolivar and how far the US Dollar goes for him.
I suspect there is a lot of stuff you haven't accounted for in your $1500 build, but that's just because I've been through so many iterations.
I've kept an accurate record in an excel sheet of everything I have spent on my mustang... the NA phase, then to the Whippled stage and then on to the twin turbos, let's just say that I would have saved $$$$ by just going straight to the twins as there was a lot of stuff that ended up having to be replaced fort the various setups, but people like you have benefited from people like me & my takeoffs, so thanks for keeping the used parts market alive.
05-13-2016, 06:49 AM
#13
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 750
Unaccounted for, sure there were a couple axle backs I bought, I have an extra one sitting in my garage right now and has been for the last couple years. I'm just talking about hard parts that are on the car. The only parts I bought used were the CAI, the original charge motion plates I bought to make my own delete, and my catted shorty H pipe.
Everything else was bought new- but like I said, I am obsessive about getting the best deal. I got my current axle back as a closeout from Edelbrock for $90. Got my ceramic coated headers for $500 from streetsideauto. Bought my UDP's a couple years ago from American muscle where they were having a sale for something like $150 (can't remember). The cams weren't cheap but still, I got them during a sale Cushman was having so they cost me $620 I believe. FWIW I would not pay $800 for cams. And I still don't think a TB is worth $600 even with a full top end setup, I would run a GT500 TB if I was at that point.
I suppose if you count the tuner, yeah I have more than $1500 in the setup, but I still have less than half of a supercharger invested, and it was over the course of 5 years.
Everything else was bought new- but like I said, I am obsessive about getting the best deal. I got my current axle back as a closeout from Edelbrock for $90. Got my ceramic coated headers for $500 from streetsideauto. Bought my UDP's a couple years ago from American muscle where they were having a sale for something like $150 (can't remember). The cams weren't cheap but still, I got them during a sale Cushman was having so they cost me $620 I believe. FWIW I would not pay $800 for cams. And I still don't think a TB is worth $600 even with a full top end setup, I would run a GT500 TB if I was at that point.
I suppose if you count the tuner, yeah I have more than $1500 in the setup, but I still have less than half of a supercharger invested, and it was over the course of 5 years.
Last edited by ghunt; 05-13-2016 at 06:51 AM.
05-13-2016, 01:05 PM
#14
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 100
Just my thoughts on under drive pulleys,they slow all of your Accessories and decrease output of alternator... Not worth it to me to loose any of the main sorce of power to fule pump,injectors,computer, exc... I have had them on other vehicles and not worth it to me
05-13-2016, 05:46 PM
#17
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 100
Maby most the issues were with some of the earlier set ups and with older technology. There are some threads out there of loosing amps on idle but most are pre s197 and have only Hurd of a couple of newer cars with issues.they could have gotten knock off kits.some people seem to love them though.good luck on getting the H.P. up to what Your shooting for.currently working on the same process myself. With eveory new part it is more fun to drive! I have felt a difference with eveory part and a friend of mine who drives a 2002 gt gets smaller and smaller in the rear view with eveory one.lol! Good luck!
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