Need Help Now - Frustrated and Ready to Part it Out
08-22-2009, 08:45 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4
Need Help Now - Frustrated and Ready to Part it Out
Have a '93 GT that will not start. Have sought help before and nothing seems to work.
The problem: car will not start - turns over very strong - the electricity pulse to the fuel injectors is being cut out by something - confirmed by noid light. This is why the car won't start - no pulse to the injectors to put in fuel - car will briefly fire up on starter fluid - but will not run because of injector deficit.
What usually works is to cut the electricity to the car by pulling the battery for a period of time. If it chooses to start after this fix, then it will cut back out after idling for about 3 minutes - then it will not start again.
What's been tried: has a new fuel pump, new pump relay, new MSD distributer, new fusable link that runs in the electrical line for the fuel system, new throttle position sensor, new tfi coil - none of these worked - replaced the ECU/computer and this fixed it for a about a day - then the problem re-occured.
Someone suggested that it may be a ground that is kicking the injectors off - anyone have a diagram of the location of the engine and harness grounding points?
ANY IDEAS APPRECIATED!!!
I have over $9500 invested in this car and am about to trash it.
Thanks for the help.
David
The problem: car will not start - turns over very strong - the electricity pulse to the fuel injectors is being cut out by something - confirmed by noid light. This is why the car won't start - no pulse to the injectors to put in fuel - car will briefly fire up on starter fluid - but will not run because of injector deficit.
What usually works is to cut the electricity to the car by pulling the battery for a period of time. If it chooses to start after this fix, then it will cut back out after idling for about 3 minutes - then it will not start again.
What's been tried: has a new fuel pump, new pump relay, new MSD distributer, new fusable link that runs in the electrical line for the fuel system, new throttle position sensor, new tfi coil - none of these worked - replaced the ECU/computer and this fixed it for a about a day - then the problem re-occured.
Someone suggested that it may be a ground that is kicking the injectors off - anyone have a diagram of the location of the engine and harness grounding points?
ANY IDEAS APPRECIATED!!!
I have over $9500 invested in this car and am about to trash it.
Thanks for the help.
David
Last edited by Catori; 08-22-2009 at 08:49 AM.
08-22-2009, 09:56 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4
In Chesterfield County - right outside Richmond.
The ground below the ECM is securely fastened - wish that was it - or is that what you mean by "controlled" by the ECM?
The noid light shows that the electrical pulse has stopped before reaching the injector plug - not sure about before that point - where would you suggest I check - how far back in the loop?
Thanks for the thoughts.
David
The ground below the ECM is securely fastened - wish that was it - or is that what you mean by "controlled" by the ECM?
The noid light shows that the electrical pulse has stopped before reaching the injector plug - not sure about before that point - where would you suggest I check - how far back in the loop?
Thanks for the thoughts.
David
08-22-2009, 11:57 AM
#5
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Spfld, MA
Posts: 9,240
Had a similar problem in an old ex-gf's Bonneville. The signal wire from the cam sensor was burned and melted from the sensor all the way to the computer, due to the rubber insulator in the firewall deteriorating, thus allowing the wire to cut it's sheath against the metal, ground itself out, and self destruct.
Based on what you're saying, my guess here is that you have an issue with your TFI wiring tracing back to the computer. The PIP module inside the distributor is in direct control of your injector pulse, and that pulse travels through the TFI, to the PCM, back to the injectors.
If all injectors aren't working, its not in the injector harness, its in the TFI wiring back to the PCM.
Based on what you're saying, my guess here is that you have an issue with your TFI wiring tracing back to the computer. The PIP module inside the distributor is in direct control of your injector pulse, and that pulse travels through the TFI, to the PCM, back to the injectors.
If all injectors aren't working, its not in the injector harness, its in the TFI wiring back to the PCM.
08-22-2009, 04:49 PM
#6
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: tn
Posts: 900
Had a similar problem in an old ex-gf's Bonneville. The signal wire from the cam sensor was burned and melted from the sensor all the way to the computer, due to the rubber insulator in the firewall deteriorating, thus allowing the wire to cut it's sheath against the metal, ground itself out, and self destruct.
Based on what you're saying, my guess here is that you have an issue with your TFI wiring tracing back to the computer. The PIP module inside the distributor is in direct control of your injector pulse, and that pulse travels through the TFI, to the PCM, back to the injectors.
If all injectors aren't working, its not in the injector harness, its in the TFI wiring back to the PCM.
Based on what you're saying, my guess here is that you have an issue with your TFI wiring tracing back to the computer. The PIP module inside the distributor is in direct control of your injector pulse, and that pulse travels through the TFI, to the PCM, back to the injectors.
If all injectors aren't working, its not in the injector harness, its in the TFI wiring back to the PCM.
08-22-2009, 08:29 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4
Great Thoughts
The TFI wiring to the PCM - can you clarify for me please? This sounds promising - where does this originate in the engine bay (at the distributor wiring connection) and I am guessing that it terminates at the PCM, correct?
Just so I am clear, please define.
TFI =
PCM =
The distributer is a new, out of the box Pro Billet by MSD - wouldn't think the innards or the module on the outside are bad. The problem still existed when I replaced the stock distibutor with this one. Not until I changed the computer did it go away - but only temporarily.
Thanks for the thoughts - greatly appreciate the time you are taking to help.
David
Just so I am clear, please define.
TFI =
PCM =
The distributer is a new, out of the box Pro Billet by MSD - wouldn't think the innards or the module on the outside are bad. The problem still existed when I replaced the stock distibutor with this one. Not until I changed the computer did it go away - but only temporarily.
Thanks for the thoughts - greatly appreciate the time you are taking to help.
David
08-22-2009, 08:37 PM
#8
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 2,166
There is a harness that runs from the tfi module (on dist.) to the pcm (computer). Id check the wiring for opens and shorts to ground. Also check that the connectors are good. Since you say a computer fixed it for a day a connector or pin may be loose (came loose after the one day) and is causing the whole problem.
11-27-2009, 11:51 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4
Sorry for the long delay in getting back with results.
So - took the MSD module off of the distributer, tested at Advance and was bad. Bought a new Ford module and put it on MSD distibuter. Car fired right up - drove it for a bit and parked it. Went back about two weeks later - started right up and warmed up fine. Two weeks more - drove it onto a trailer - brought it home. Started it up to back off of trailer - car died when idling - would not restart. Obviously frustrated - backed it off trailer using starter motor - using clutch to control speed - car refired and I backed it off trailer. When pulling forward onto pavement - car died again - would not refire. Used clutch and starter to move to driveway - car wanted to restart and did. Drove it down road and back. Parked it. Went back two weeks later to start and warm up - would not start. Went back today - turned over slowly - fired up and ran. Let it warm up and idle for a while - car died once again - will not restart.
Thought it might be the clutch switch -was going to change - but I do not see how that would cause it to die when it is idling in neutral with the clutch pedal out.
Thought I had it fixed by replacing the module on the front of the distributer, no luck. Just an FYI - it first went out with the Ford distributer installed.
Ideas?
So - took the MSD module off of the distributer, tested at Advance and was bad. Bought a new Ford module and put it on MSD distibuter. Car fired right up - drove it for a bit and parked it. Went back about two weeks later - started right up and warmed up fine. Two weeks more - drove it onto a trailer - brought it home. Started it up to back off of trailer - car died when idling - would not restart. Obviously frustrated - backed it off trailer using starter motor - using clutch to control speed - car refired and I backed it off trailer. When pulling forward onto pavement - car died again - would not refire. Used clutch and starter to move to driveway - car wanted to restart and did. Drove it down road and back. Parked it. Went back two weeks later to start and warm up - would not start. Went back today - turned over slowly - fired up and ran. Let it warm up and idle for a while - car died once again - will not restart.
Thought it might be the clutch switch -was going to change - but I do not see how that would cause it to die when it is idling in neutral with the clutch pedal out.
Thought I had it fixed by replacing the module on the front of the distributer, no luck. Just an FYI - it first went out with the Ford distributer installed.
Ideas?
11-27-2009, 12:33 PM
#10
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lil' Rhody
Posts: 22,376
put your stock distributor back in..
msd distributors are notorious for having **** PIP's from the factory. those of us who have been doing this for a while, have seen it. also, when i got my msd distributor, i pulled the guts out and replaced the parts with OEM ford stuff
msd distributors are notorious for having **** PIP's from the factory. those of us who have been doing this for a while, have seen it. also, when i got my msd distributor, i pulled the guts out and replaced the parts with OEM ford stuff