HELP PLEASE!!
03-26-2012, 08:31 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 4
HELP PLEASE!!
My story:
My name is Gene Franklin. I am married and the proud father of two young boys. Like a lot of people, times are really tough on my family and I. I am a shift manager at Jack in the Box which offers no incentives other than an hourly wage that I have to fight to get hours for. It's kind of needless to say money is hard to come by. I own a 1987 Mustang GT with 109K miles which is the only car we have for the time being. It's a fuel injected, automatic, 302 engine. The only mod I have made to the car was putting on a K&N intake.
My issue:
I leave for work early in the mornings while it is still cold outside. I turn the key and my car fires up instantly, but will die just as instantly if I don't keep my foot on the gas pedal and maintain around 1500 RPMs. I shift into reverse to back out of my stall and the car stumbles as if it's not receiving any fuel or getting too much fuel. I shift to drive and press the accelerator. Once again the car stumbles. After the car starts moving everything runs fine and I couldn't be happier. When I try to start the car while it is warmed up, I have to hold the key as the engines cranks and cranks. The car will not fire unless I hold the gas pedal all the way down which is strange for fuel injection. Also, whenever I am stopped at a stop light or stop sign I have to keep one foot on the break pedal and one foot on the gas pedal to keep the RPMs up so the car doesn't die. I am getting terrible fuel economy in the car as well. It is rated at about 18 city mpg and I am getting around 9-10 mpg. I also feel like there is a big power loss to what I should be getting.
What I've Done:
I have hooked the car up to a Ford code reader under the hood. I gave 2 codes: Catalytic Converters and EGR Valve. Naturally, I replace all 4 cats and the EGR. I even replaced both O2 sensors. I still had the same problem so I started asking people who knew more about cars than I do. Things I have replaced include: Throttle Position Switch, tune-up, ignition coil, fuel filter, and I have sprayed around the engine with carb cleaner to find any vacuum leaks. Nothing I have done has helped improve the situation. I would take it into a shop but I cannot afford the $96/hr shop rates.
I thank everyone who takes the time to read this and I am hoping someone might have a good suggestion to help me through this. I am very uncomfortable driving my family around in a car that loves to stall in intersections.
My name is Gene Franklin. I am married and the proud father of two young boys. Like a lot of people, times are really tough on my family and I. I am a shift manager at Jack in the Box which offers no incentives other than an hourly wage that I have to fight to get hours for. It's kind of needless to say money is hard to come by. I own a 1987 Mustang GT with 109K miles which is the only car we have for the time being. It's a fuel injected, automatic, 302 engine. The only mod I have made to the car was putting on a K&N intake.
My issue:
I leave for work early in the mornings while it is still cold outside. I turn the key and my car fires up instantly, but will die just as instantly if I don't keep my foot on the gas pedal and maintain around 1500 RPMs. I shift into reverse to back out of my stall and the car stumbles as if it's not receiving any fuel or getting too much fuel. I shift to drive and press the accelerator. Once again the car stumbles. After the car starts moving everything runs fine and I couldn't be happier. When I try to start the car while it is warmed up, I have to hold the key as the engines cranks and cranks. The car will not fire unless I hold the gas pedal all the way down which is strange for fuel injection. Also, whenever I am stopped at a stop light or stop sign I have to keep one foot on the break pedal and one foot on the gas pedal to keep the RPMs up so the car doesn't die. I am getting terrible fuel economy in the car as well. It is rated at about 18 city mpg and I am getting around 9-10 mpg. I also feel like there is a big power loss to what I should be getting.
What I've Done:
I have hooked the car up to a Ford code reader under the hood. I gave 2 codes: Catalytic Converters and EGR Valve. Naturally, I replace all 4 cats and the EGR. I even replaced both O2 sensors. I still had the same problem so I started asking people who knew more about cars than I do. Things I have replaced include: Throttle Position Switch, tune-up, ignition coil, fuel filter, and I have sprayed around the engine with carb cleaner to find any vacuum leaks. Nothing I have done has helped improve the situation. I would take it into a shop but I cannot afford the $96/hr shop rates.
I thank everyone who takes the time to read this and I am hoping someone might have a good suggestion to help me through this. I am very uncomfortable driving my family around in a car that loves to stall in intersections.
03-28-2012, 07:35 AM
#3
5th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,459
Sounds like you didn't find the vacuum leak or the car is not timed right.
Timing being too advanced or retarded would definitly cause a huge lack of power and cause it miss on a few cylinders.... causing lower MPG as well as causing it to stall without the other cylinders that are firing have to work at higher RPM to keep the engine running...
Just my 2 cents.
Re-stab the dizzy and get back to us...
Timing being too advanced or retarded would definitly cause a huge lack of power and cause it miss on a few cylinders.... causing lower MPG as well as causing it to stall without the other cylinders that are firing have to work at higher RPM to keep the engine running...
Just my 2 cents.
Re-stab the dizzy and get back to us...
03-29-2012, 12:35 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 4
@Tony It's possible I could've missed a vacuum leak and I'll go back and check everything again. As for timing I forgot to mention in my original post that somehow the timing was way advanced, 27 degrees advanced. Factory specs from what I found said between 8-12 degrees advanced, so I timed it at 10. Thank you for your response and I'll be sure to post if I find a leak.
@99GTvert thanks you for the repost.
@fl1a I'm going to start by checking again for a vacuum leak and if nothing turns up I'll look into the fuel pressure regulator. Thanks for the advice.
@99GTvert thanks you for the repost.
@fl1a I'm going to start by checking again for a vacuum leak and if nothing turns up I'll look into the fuel pressure regulator. Thanks for the advice.
03-29-2012, 07:38 AM
#6
5th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,459
When timing make sure to remove the spout connector.
If your timing was 27 degrees advanced... that may be because the distributor was stabbed wrong and was a tooth off. Therefore just because the marks say 27 degrees advanced it may have been in the right position. So reducing the timing back to 10 degrees with a distributor that is a tooth off causes it to be very retarded instead of accurate.
Restab it. It's free. Why not?
If your timing was 27 degrees advanced... that may be because the distributor was stabbed wrong and was a tooth off. Therefore just because the marks say 27 degrees advanced it may have been in the right position. So reducing the timing back to 10 degrees with a distributor that is a tooth off causes it to be very retarded instead of accurate.
Restab it. It's free. Why not?
03-29-2012, 02:50 PM
#7
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: alabama
Posts: 1,812
Explain how a distributor can be 1 tooth off you have enough sweep to cover 2-3 teeth on the gear? you can cover about 20-25* of timing from stop to stop!
If you havent ever removed the distributor dont bother it just time it to 10* with the spout removed. you may want to remove the IAC and clean it with carb cleaner or such and make sure it isnt sticking open or closed that controls your whole idle!
Plus also check your TPS idle voltage and make sure it is just under 1v .998 down to .890
anything under that can cause sluggish results anything over 1v the ecm thinks the car is driving and will wig-out! you need a Volt meter to check the tps (digital) at that, there are 3 wires red green and black, 5v source ground and referance! .998 with the koeo and your set.
Just because parts are new dont mean they are installed properly and working right!
If you havent ever removed the distributor dont bother it just time it to 10* with the spout removed. you may want to remove the IAC and clean it with carb cleaner or such and make sure it isnt sticking open or closed that controls your whole idle!
Plus also check your TPS idle voltage and make sure it is just under 1v .998 down to .890
anything under that can cause sluggish results anything over 1v the ecm thinks the car is driving and will wig-out! you need a Volt meter to check the tps (digital) at that, there are 3 wires red green and black, 5v source ground and referance! .998 with the koeo and your set.
Just because parts are new dont mean they are installed properly and working right!
03-29-2012, 03:37 PM
#10
Ok stock your car should have around 25* of timing in it without the little sensor removed (can't thing of it's name) base timing is 10*. If it's anything but, put it back.
Now I have a very similar problem with my 5.0 and no shop has ever been able to figure it out since it started back in 2007. I litterally replaced nearly everything in my 5.0 and the problem is still there. Although not as bad as yours it's similar.
The IAC sensor could be an issue, but like me if you fixed that then time to move on.
The thermostat sensor could also be an issue, but shouldn't cause the problem when the car is cold but still worth taking a look at.
So that leaves the fuel pump, maf, and a bad wire/ground. If any one of these 3 were to go bad you'd have massive problems. The MAF probably isn't it cause the car would never run right if it were bad. The fuel pump would be a very good bet, that and changing the fuel filter cause if the fuel lines are clogged, cracked/leaking, or the fuel pump is bad you'd have massive problems getting the car to start. However this doesn't fully explain running rich, if anything it would run lean due to loss of fuel pressure.
A bad ground wire would cause a multitude of problems, but again I'm not too certain about the running rich thing.
You may have a couple of things wrong causing the issue you're getting.
Id try the thermostat sensor first since it's cheap and go from there.
To test the fuel pump turn the ignition on but do not start the car to see if you hear the fuel pump priming, it'll make a bildge pump kind of noise. If it does then that's likely fine. Next chain the fuel filter. If that all checks out jack the car up and look for bad wiring.
Now I have a very similar problem with my 5.0 and no shop has ever been able to figure it out since it started back in 2007. I litterally replaced nearly everything in my 5.0 and the problem is still there. Although not as bad as yours it's similar.
The IAC sensor could be an issue, but like me if you fixed that then time to move on.
The thermostat sensor could also be an issue, but shouldn't cause the problem when the car is cold but still worth taking a look at.
So that leaves the fuel pump, maf, and a bad wire/ground. If any one of these 3 were to go bad you'd have massive problems. The MAF probably isn't it cause the car would never run right if it were bad. The fuel pump would be a very good bet, that and changing the fuel filter cause if the fuel lines are clogged, cracked/leaking, or the fuel pump is bad you'd have massive problems getting the car to start. However this doesn't fully explain running rich, if anything it would run lean due to loss of fuel pressure.
A bad ground wire would cause a multitude of problems, but again I'm not too certain about the running rich thing.
You may have a couple of things wrong causing the issue you're getting.
Id try the thermostat sensor first since it's cheap and go from there.
To test the fuel pump turn the ignition on but do not start the car to see if you hear the fuel pump priming, it'll make a bildge pump kind of noise. If it does then that's likely fine. Next chain the fuel filter. If that all checks out jack the car up and look for bad wiring.