prangy

Alright, so I seem to come across just bizzare issues that are keeping me from driving my dang car!

Let me explain the problem.
Last year I put a new starter in my new motor, dropped the motor in and ran the car for two months with no problems starting. I started my car up this past thursday and there was an awful loud noise. Figured out it was the starter still engaged on the fly wheel. So, I got a new starter. Put the starter in, turned the key and once again this starter also was still engaged. So, to test the starter and wiring I simply pulled the starter out, but left it hooked up to power and grounded it by using a jack to push it up against the bell housing. I had a friend crank the starter over, it came out, engaged, and then went back to its original position. So, I do not believe the starter is actually "stuck engaged" , is there any way the starter pinion gear is just sticking out to far even in the disengaged postion, but just enough that the flywheel still has enough to grab onto? I thought about shimming it with a washers, but I am not really a fan of this idea. Any suggestions would be great, I really want to get the car out with the few motnhs left before snow!

Will

mjr46

never had to shim one ever......you need to put it back in and check with a test light that when the key is released from the crank position that current is still not being sent down to the starter, this can be performed right at the selonoid, if current remains on that wire, either the selonoid is sticking or the ignition switch is still applying current to the selonoid, all tests can be done right at the selonoid to verify where issue exists

petrock

+1. Except the ignition switch isn’t connected to the starter. The ignition switch circuit is a low amp circuit. The starter circuit is a high amp circuit. If the two were connected sparks would fly and electronics would melt. The starter relay joins the two without physically connecting the circuits. The ignition switch applies power to the coil side of the starter relay which engages the switch in the relay which sends power to the starter.

This could be a sticking starter relay. Try swapping it with the fuel pump relay (assuming it is good) and see if the problem reproduces. If it doesn’t then the relay is bad. If it does, then the problem is either on the switch (starter) side of the relay or the coil (ignition) side of the relay.

You can test which side it is from the starter relay itself. Pins 85 & 86 are the coil side of the relay and are connected to the ignition switch. Pin 30 & 87 are the switch side of the relay. Pin 30 is connected directly to battery positive, with a fuse in the middle, and is always hot. Pin 87 goes directly to the starter. With the ignition switch in the On position you can test the starter side by momentarily jumping wholes for pin 30 & 87 until the motor starts. If, after you remove the jumper wire you get the bad noise from the starter then the problem is between the whole for pin 87 and the starter. If the problem does not reproduce then the problem is on the ignition side of the relay.

Be careful when jumping pin 30. It is connected directly to battery positive and is always hot. If you jump it to any other pin you can cause some serious damage to your electrical system or blow a fuse if your lucky. So do this test at your own risk… Good luck...

mjr46

nice explanation, however you're incorrect on how a 1990 mustang if that's what he has is set up in regards to the starting system. It does not have a starter relay with pin 85/86 and 30/87, it has a fender mounted starter selonoid the ignition switch applies a small amount of current too in order to bridge power to the starter from the battery, it is usually a small red/blue wire from the ign switch to this selonoid, all that is needed is a test light as I stated to verify such = whether or not it's a selonoid issue sticking or ign switch sticking/keeping current on the selonoid

prangy

Thanks for the suggestions guys!
So, I will apply the test light to the hot wire that runs to the starter, if it is on we have problems obviously like you said. I went to a car show today and some guys are wondering about the new alternator wiring. I had a short at first when I was done wiring and the post wanted to melt. The short was at the alternator so they were wondering if somethign got messed up in there and now it is effecting the starter? I am going to pull the power wires off the alternator, run the car for a few and see if the starter disengages to check that out.
So, if the light goes on and the starter is still getting power, what should I be looking at next? This is my first time trouble shooting electrical stuff, it is kind of fun. Thanks for the help so far, I will let you know how it goes!

mjr46

if current is still being applied to the starter after key is released then put the test light on the small wire that connects to the selonoid it is usually a red with blue tracer and is from the ign switch if power /test light goes off immediately after key is released but power is still applied to starter = bad selonoid