302Army187's teardown/head;cam swap thread.
02-04-2010, 02:12 PM
#553
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts, New Bedford
Posts: 3,035
haha that sux about the guy with ur heads... who just runs off to nebraska?! lol
so ur gonna have 2 sets of heads if you get ur tax return before you get the other ones back? he better cuz you the extreme mega deal for jerking you around and leaving you hanging. he should have at least told his customers that he was leaving...
so ur gonna have 2 sets of heads if you get ur tax return before you get the other ones back? he better cuz you the extreme mega deal for jerking you around and leaving you hanging. he should have at least told his customers that he was leaving...
02-04-2010, 02:15 PM
#554
really? sell the heads? dibs
seriously though, i just sold my tremec. I still got to get a short block but, maybe interested if I have some cash left over.
Regardless i am going to be in here to annoy the **** out of you all since i can stand to look at my car again
seriously though, i just sold my tremec. I still got to get a short block but, maybe interested if I have some cash left over.
Regardless i am going to be in here to annoy the **** out of you all since i can stand to look at my car again
02-04-2010, 02:17 PM
#555
in limbo
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 7,300
BAH-HUMBUG!
Thanks! Shouldn't be much issue, I mocked everything up before the tear down, and it should be fine. I just wanna try and hang the alternator low, and IDK if thats going to wrk with the way the belt would need to be routed.
MEH.
We shall see. and what other surprise could you have? you already got a wild combo, and spray, what else you gonna do?
got ahold of my buddy that introduced me to this engine builder guy. He said he is currently at his farm in Nebraska for a emergency or something........ I didn't even know he had a damn farm. (makes scene why all his vehicles have "farm" tags now.)
so more then likely he ran out there in a hurry, and has NO reception for his cellphone...... f-ing great. hopefully he comes back soon...
Thanks! Shouldn't be much issue, I mocked everything up before the tear down, and it should be fine. I just wanna try and hang the alternator low, and IDK if thats going to wrk with the way the belt would need to be routed.
MEH.
We shall see. and what other surprise could you have? you already got a wild combo, and spray, what else you gonna do?
got ahold of my buddy that introduced me to this engine builder guy. He said he is currently at his farm in Nebraska for a emergency or something........ I didn't even know he had a damn farm. (makes scene why all his vehicles have "farm" tags now.)
so more then likely he ran out there in a hurry, and has NO reception for his cellphone...... f-ing great. hopefully he comes back soon...
C8 302 block .030 over
ARP studded mains
SRS forged 408/418 pistons
5.4" ultralight scat rods
cast 3" crank (2m)
Flat tops
standard reliefs.
otherwise here in about 2 weeks when my taxes come, its gonna be big TW 190FAC heads, custom cam and switching this **** up.
02-04-2010, 02:44 PM
#557
FivePointoh, I am interested in the long rod build and what it will do. nobody builds them and I don't know why.
To tell a little story about my reasoning...A friend of mine that put an engine together for the first time 35 years ago and been doing it ever since built a true 406 for a customer with a bathtub dish top piston. I believe he said it was 10:1 with the heads the guy was running. I can't remember his time wth the motor but, it was 6 something. So anyway, the bolts in the cam gear broke and the guy decided to get the motor rebuilt by Dennis Marcum, who builds racing engines for a living. This motor was 12:1 with a long rod and different piston, what most people recommend as far as rod. The car ran less than a tenth faster with the same parts and more compression.
So, why? Ronnie said it is because the longer rod throws it off the balance or something like that from how perfect it comes from the factory. It seems like it would have more friction with the shorter rod. He also claimed this is why a 302 runs so good. He said he has seen them both be fast but, the long rod needs more rpm to get it up to potential. Personally, i think the long rod would be better but, nobody builds them so, I have no way of knowing. It may just be because the top of the pistons are thinner and the heat from power adders would be less reliable.
the guy was pissed that he could have spent a few hundred to get Ronnie to get fix his versus the thousands he spent at Marcum's to only go .07 faster in the eighth mile.
To tell a little story about my reasoning...A friend of mine that put an engine together for the first time 35 years ago and been doing it ever since built a true 406 for a customer with a bathtub dish top piston. I believe he said it was 10:1 with the heads the guy was running. I can't remember his time wth the motor but, it was 6 something. So anyway, the bolts in the cam gear broke and the guy decided to get the motor rebuilt by Dennis Marcum, who builds racing engines for a living. This motor was 12:1 with a long rod and different piston, what most people recommend as far as rod. The car ran less than a tenth faster with the same parts and more compression.
So, why? Ronnie said it is because the longer rod throws it off the balance or something like that from how perfect it comes from the factory. It seems like it would have more friction with the shorter rod. He also claimed this is why a 302 runs so good. He said he has seen them both be fast but, the long rod needs more rpm to get it up to potential. Personally, i think the long rod would be better but, nobody builds them so, I have no way of knowing. It may just be because the top of the pistons are thinner and the heat from power adders would be less reliable.
the guy was pissed that he could have spent a few hundred to get Ronnie to get fix his versus the thousands he spent at Marcum's to only go .07 faster in the eighth mile.
Last edited by TrimDrip; 02-04-2010 at 02:47 PM.
02-04-2010, 03:30 PM
#559
6th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: colorado
Posts: 6,395
haha that sux about the guy with ur heads... who just runs off to nebraska?! lol
so ur gonna have 2 sets of heads if you get ur tax return before you get the other ones back? he better cuz you the extreme mega deal for jerking you around and leaving you hanging. he should have at least told his customers that he was leaving...
so ur gonna have 2 sets of heads if you get ur tax return before you get the other ones back? he better cuz you the extreme mega deal for jerking you around and leaving you hanging. he should have at least told his customers that he was leaving...
my buddy, matt, just told me he doesn't give a crap about people. hes cool to your face, but if something comes up, he takes off, and doesn't give a crap if you get pissed.
this is matts car, the guy im dealing with built the motor (well the bottom end)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyzKbcs7BEo
(remember, this is at 5900ft above sea level, so its a 9 second car)
He told matt he was real busy, and it would take a month, to machine and assemble the bottom end. Matt didn't get his block back for three months If i remember right.
hes a cool guy...... good prices..... just works on HIS schedule regardless im beginning to realize.
to me building a 302 is pointless. I want a 351 punched out to a 408 making 800+ horse. ether through spray, or a turbo. but thats a while away.
for rizzle.
long rod 302's are purely for RPM's. the way that motor is build it would be rev happy as ****. Its not cheap, or easy, and in the end its still a little 302 that is capped at 500hp before the block splits. I get trying to accomplish something most dont. But to me money could be better spent into a combo you can grow with...... IE 351w
Last edited by 302army187; 02-04-2010 at 03:34 PM.
02-04-2010, 03:50 PM
#560
in limbo
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 7,300
idk, this guy's been racing sence the early 70's.
my buddy, matt, just told me he doesn't give a crap about people. hes cool to your face, but if something comes up, he takes off, and doesn't give a crap if you get pissed.
this is matts car, the guy im dealing with built the motor (well the bottom end)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyzKbcs7BEo
(remember, this is at 5900ft above sea level, so its a 9 second car)
He told matt he was real busy, and it would take a month, to machine and assemble the bottom end. Matt didn't get his block back for three months If i remember right.
hes a cool guy...... good prices..... just works on HIS schedule regardless im beginning to realize.
Shipping wouldn't be cheap on these heads. I bought them for $800. and after all this crap of him checking them up and setting up the springs ill have about $1100 into them.
Looks good, how much is he wanting? (not interested, just wondering)
to me building a 302 is pointless. I want a 351 punched out to a 408 making 800+ horse. ether through spray, or a turbo. but thats a while away.
for rizzle.
long rod 302's are purely for RPM's. the way that motor is build it would be rev happy as ****. Its not cheap, or easy, and in the end its still a little 302 that is capped at 500hp before the block splits. I get trying to accomplish something most dont. But to me money could be better spent into a combo you can grow with...... IE 351w
my buddy, matt, just told me he doesn't give a crap about people. hes cool to your face, but if something comes up, he takes off, and doesn't give a crap if you get pissed.
this is matts car, the guy im dealing with built the motor (well the bottom end)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyzKbcs7BEo
(remember, this is at 5900ft above sea level, so its a 9 second car)
He told matt he was real busy, and it would take a month, to machine and assemble the bottom end. Matt didn't get his block back for three months If i remember right.
hes a cool guy...... good prices..... just works on HIS schedule regardless im beginning to realize.
Shipping wouldn't be cheap on these heads. I bought them for $800. and after all this crap of him checking them up and setting up the springs ill have about $1100 into them.
Looks good, how much is he wanting? (not interested, just wondering)
to me building a 302 is pointless. I want a 351 punched out to a 408 making 800+ horse. ether through spray, or a turbo. but thats a while away.
for rizzle.
long rod 302's are purely for RPM's. the way that motor is build it would be rev happy as ****. Its not cheap, or easy, and in the end its still a little 302 that is capped at 500hp before the block splits. I get trying to accomplish something most dont. But to me money could be better spent into a combo you can grow with...... IE 351w
this is a very rev friendly motor. less side loading on a long rod. floating wrist pins which even adds to its rev happiness.
i wont be exceeding any 500hp NA on this 302. i dont make that kind of money, like rich. (600 somethin hp n/a 302)