1st gear grind, poor downshift, repair costs
01-10-2011, 10:21 PM
#21
01-10-2011, 11:15 PM
#23
heres the ABSOLUTE maximum he can get in 1st gear:
6250/3.35/2.73/815x60 = 50.31mph
and thats HARD against the limiter...
mine started making funny sounds around the 5500 mark and i wouldnt take it any higher...
hell, i used to be worried about doing 40 rolls in 2nd gear, which with my 3.08's was around 4000rpm, and that got it singing for those few seconds before i took off...
01-10-2011, 11:26 PM
#24
at that rpm tho, id be more worried about shooting rods into the stratosphere than turning the transmission internals into a brillo pad...
i dont know what he wants to pull off by beating the snot outta his car like that, but the stupidity of humans continues to mesmerize me
i dont know what he wants to pull off by beating the snot outta his car like that, but the stupidity of humans continues to mesmerize me
01-10-2011, 11:39 PM
#25
at that rpm tho, id be more worried about shooting rods into the stratosphere than turning the transmission internals into a brillo pad...
i dont know what he wants to pull off by beating the snot outta his car like that, but the stupidity of humans continues to mesmerize me
i dont know what he wants to pull off by beating the snot outta his car like that, but the stupidity of humans continues to mesmerize me
01-11-2011, 03:02 PM
#26
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Outside US
Posts: 117
lolololol. you know why it's going in like butter? because you are wasting so much time dickin' around with the clutch pedal that the internals the trans have had enough time to slow themselves down that first isnt moving at such a high rate of speed that it can actually go into first gear. again, you shouldnt be downshifting into first, just start in first, if you arent creepin or at a stop, you should be in second gear.
Overall it took a few days of practice, but now I can downshift while approaching the corner and braking at the same time. A bit more annoying than syncronized 1st, but doable.
But yea, with stock gears car feels like a truck when you mash the gas in 2nd gear going 20/30 mph. Then again, fuel consumption on highway will go up, which is not so cool with fuel prices of 6USD per gallon. So this leaves me with mixed feelings.
just to shut him up...
heres the ABSOLUTE maximum he can get in 1st gear:
6250/3.35/2.73/815x60 = 50.31mph
and thats HARD against the limiter...
mine started making funny sounds around the 5500 mark and i wouldnt take it any higher...
hell, i used to be worried about doing 40 rolls in 2nd gear, which with my 3.08's was around 4000rpm, and that got it singing for those few seconds before i took off...
heres the ABSOLUTE maximum he can get in 1st gear:
6250/3.35/2.73/815x60 = 50.31mph
and thats HARD against the limiter...
mine started making funny sounds around the 5500 mark and i wouldnt take it any higher...
hell, i used to be worried about doing 40 rolls in 2nd gear, which with my 3.08's was around 4000rpm, and that got it singing for those few seconds before i took off...
Because I've heard this argument over and over again, but I've been driving multiple cars close to rev limiter in a hard way for many years now, and none of them had any issues at all. Ok, 1.8L Mazda needed a ring and oil seal replacement, but it also saw 6k RPMs during winter, right after cold start (think thick oil), then again the car was super cheap, and still works just fine. So even with that sort of abuse the engine is still strong.
And for other cars, I let the oil to reach working temps before I start revving into upper range. So that shouldn't be much of an issue unless there is a known problem with these blocks.
On a track, the working RPM range on the cars I drive, is around (2.5k-7k) RPMs, 7k on cars with 7k redline, 6k for 6k redline cars and so on. Sometimes bouncing against rev limiter or skipping a shift actually translates in better laptimes.
P.S.: Please behave, I want to have a constructive discussion, and I know Adder, Sn and others are knowledgeable people who have given some valuable insight. There is no reason to start name calling if your views doesn't match my views, this is a technical discussion, and I have learned some things that I didn't knew, including the fact that 1st gear doesn't have syncros on T5.
01-11-2011, 03:26 PM
#27
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lil' Rhody
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01-11-2011, 03:29 PM
#28
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 269
With stock flywheel I can shift into 1st gear while going in the 10-30mph range, and that takes around 1-2 secs, so no, the RPMs doesn't drop that bad. Over 30 mph it takes too long to rev engine to shift comfortably, but that also puts you quite high in RPM band, so I don't see much use there. Except if you want to brake with engine and brakes at the same time. Without double clutching I can't shift into 1st even when going like 8mph.
Overall it took a few days of practice, but now I can downshift while approaching the corner and braking at the same time. A bit more annoying than syncronized 1st, but doable.
Yes, very, clutch kit in local shop sells for 800$, OEM replacement. I am thinking about gears, but I also want to do some fuel delivery/blower replacement mods for the other car, so I think I'll leave that upgrade for later.
But yea, with stock gears car feels like a truck when you mash the gas in 2nd gear going 20/30 mph. Then again, fuel consumption on highway will go up, which is not so cool with fuel prices of 6USD per gallon. So this leaves me with mixed feelings.
Yea, and 20-40/45mph range in 2nd gear feels as if you're driving a truck.
Is there any scientific evidence that 5L block doesn't like high revs (2k-4k/4.5k working range, with occasional 5.5k/5.8k spikes)? Common repairs, topics at these forums?
Because I've heard this argument over and over again, but I've been driving multiple cars close to rev limiter in a hard way for many years now, and none of them had any issues at all. Ok, 1.8L Mazda needed a ring and oil seal replacement, but it also saw 6k RPMs during winter, right after cold start (think thick oil), then again the car was super cheap, and still works just fine. So even with that sort of abuse the engine is still strong.
And for other cars, I let the oil to reach working temps before I start revving into upper range. So that shouldn't be much of an issue unless there is a known problem with these blocks.
On a track, the working RPM range on the cars I drive, is around (2.5k-7k) RPMs, 7k on cars with 7k redline, 6k for 6k redline cars and so on. Sometimes bouncing against rev limiter or skipping a shift actually translates in better laptimes.
P.S.: Please behave, I want to have a constructive discussion, and I know Adder, Sn and others are knowledgeable people who have given some valuable insight. There is no reason to start name calling if your views doesn't match my views, this is a technical discussion, and I have learned some things that I didn't knew, including the fact that 1st gear doesn't have syncros on T5.
Overall it took a few days of practice, but now I can downshift while approaching the corner and braking at the same time. A bit more annoying than syncronized 1st, but doable.
Yes, very, clutch kit in local shop sells for 800$, OEM replacement. I am thinking about gears, but I also want to do some fuel delivery/blower replacement mods for the other car, so I think I'll leave that upgrade for later.
But yea, with stock gears car feels like a truck when you mash the gas in 2nd gear going 20/30 mph. Then again, fuel consumption on highway will go up, which is not so cool with fuel prices of 6USD per gallon. So this leaves me with mixed feelings.
Yea, and 20-40/45mph range in 2nd gear feels as if you're driving a truck.
Is there any scientific evidence that 5L block doesn't like high revs (2k-4k/4.5k working range, with occasional 5.5k/5.8k spikes)? Common repairs, topics at these forums?
Because I've heard this argument over and over again, but I've been driving multiple cars close to rev limiter in a hard way for many years now, and none of them had any issues at all. Ok, 1.8L Mazda needed a ring and oil seal replacement, but it also saw 6k RPMs during winter, right after cold start (think thick oil), then again the car was super cheap, and still works just fine. So even with that sort of abuse the engine is still strong.
And for other cars, I let the oil to reach working temps before I start revving into upper range. So that shouldn't be much of an issue unless there is a known problem with these blocks.
On a track, the working RPM range on the cars I drive, is around (2.5k-7k) RPMs, 7k on cars with 7k redline, 6k for 6k redline cars and so on. Sometimes bouncing against rev limiter or skipping a shift actually translates in better laptimes.
P.S.: Please behave, I want to have a constructive discussion, and I know Adder, Sn and others are knowledgeable people who have given some valuable insight. There is no reason to start name calling if your views doesn't match my views, this is a technical discussion, and I have learned some things that I didn't knew, including the fact that 1st gear doesn't have syncros on T5.
i honestly dont think you have your mind quite wrapped around how the engine/trans combo works, either that or you are not describing yourself clear enough. i'm guessing it's option 1.
if your bitch about the car is it lugs like a truck at 20-30 mph in 2nd gear....then you need to change your rear end gear. 4.10's-4.30's would be great for a 5 speed.
scientific evidence that the 5.0 doesnt like RPM? yes the 50oz imbalance is your proof. that is a horrible imbalance for high RPM applications and you're just asking for assembly to rip itself to pieces.^^reference picture above
you should never go beating up your motor unless your oil is at operating temp. or close to it.
01-11-2011, 04:07 PM
#30
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Outside US
Posts: 117
I know, only did that to a backup car. And I mentioned that only because the results were not as bad as most urban legends tell us, and, therefore I would like to know if someone has seen actual problems with high RPM abuse on stock'ish engine in the neighborhood, Mustang clubs, local drag-strips, tracks.