What is your thoughts on putting valve guides in an aluminum head.
03-21-2011, 07:04 PM
#12
Well, he was sick today and we were really busy so, I didn't get around to asking. I am kinda anxious to hear what his explanation is.
MJR This was on my dad's 97 3.8 mustang. Now that I think about it. dad did have a motor put in at 83k. It is showing 468k now and he claims he has put about 50k on it since the speedometer quit. So maybe they don't quite have a half a million on them. Yeah, they did need more. I suggested having them rebuilt sinve we were on our third motor. Or fourth if you count the heads we finally ended up running....He did use about 6 of the valves out of the old motor so, some of 500k monster is still in there.lol
His exact words were after I tried to get him to rebuild the heads were, "replaced valve guides will never last in an alunmum head." Anyways, I will ask tomorrow if he feels a little better.
MJR This was on my dad's 97 3.8 mustang. Now that I think about it. dad did have a motor put in at 83k. It is showing 468k now and he claims he has put about 50k on it since the speedometer quit. So maybe they don't quite have a half a million on them. Yeah, they did need more. I suggested having them rebuilt sinve we were on our third motor. Or fourth if you count the heads we finally ended up running....He did use about 6 of the valves out of the old motor so, some of 500k monster is still in there.lol
His exact words were after I tried to get him to rebuild the heads were, "replaced valve guides will never last in an alunmum head." Anyways, I will ask tomorrow if he feels a little better.
Last edited by TrimDrip; 03-21-2011 at 07:19 PM.
03-21-2011, 08:29 PM
#13
I asked another guy that had been a junk man for all my life and we both agreed that my boss is just weird about things when it comes to cars. On his defense, he does build motors and warranty them so, I can see that he has probably just had some bad experiences with putting guides in aluminum or seen them as the first problem the motors he has built have had.
This guy is a bit weird. Back when he used to race, he would want his motors finished to a x.xx6 bore. He said they didn't last long but, they ran like hell.lol
This guy is a bit weird. Back when he used to race, he would want his motors finished to a x.xx6 bore. He said they didn't last long but, they ran like hell.lol
Last edited by TrimDrip; 03-21-2011 at 08:38 PM.
03-21-2011, 10:43 PM
#15
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
I've met some dumb old school guys. They can machine stuff and assemble stuff really well, but don't really know anything about what they're dealing with.
I had one guy tell me that no matter HOW I built the 302 in my Mustang, there's absolutely NO WAY IN HELL it could produce as much power as a stock 4.6L 3V and be street drivable, because it was a pushrod engine and had a carburetor. He even insisted his friends stock 1994 Acura 4 cylinder sedan was faster than my 302 because it had OHC and EFI, so there was "nothing I could ever do to compete." He had like a 67 Vette with some 350 he rebuilt 30 or more years ago. Stock 60's heads, stock 60's iron intake, stock 60's exhaust manifolds. Basically the entire engine was stock, except for a flat tappet hyd cam. He would get beat by 4 cylinders, and always insisted it was because they had fuel injection.
Had another guy tell me that you can't build street performance engines with aluminum heads, because they'll "run too cold on the street and never make good combustion." Never mind the fact that 99% of everything made has aluminum heads and runs just fine on the street.
Both of those guys each owned their own shop. So they were "experts." They were also "building engines before you were a twinkle in your mommies eye!" I've heard such BS from guys like that, how they built an engine that picked the front wheel off the ground when they revved it in neutral(in a street car, not a fuel drag race car), or how they knew guys with engines that had .125 bearing clearance and rattled like a spray can but could turn 10,000rpm and this that and the other.
Guys like that are completely full of crap, and continue to spread false information around. Granted, there's room for argument and discussion about the best way to build engine performance based on a variety of factors. That's how we figure things out and learn. But some of these guys are completely in their own world.
One of those guys also built a roots blown 347 once, with like 18lbs of boost it made a whopping 450hp on an engine dyno. If that gives you any idea.
I had one guy tell me that no matter HOW I built the 302 in my Mustang, there's absolutely NO WAY IN HELL it could produce as much power as a stock 4.6L 3V and be street drivable, because it was a pushrod engine and had a carburetor. He even insisted his friends stock 1994 Acura 4 cylinder sedan was faster than my 302 because it had OHC and EFI, so there was "nothing I could ever do to compete." He had like a 67 Vette with some 350 he rebuilt 30 or more years ago. Stock 60's heads, stock 60's iron intake, stock 60's exhaust manifolds. Basically the entire engine was stock, except for a flat tappet hyd cam. He would get beat by 4 cylinders, and always insisted it was because they had fuel injection.
Had another guy tell me that you can't build street performance engines with aluminum heads, because they'll "run too cold on the street and never make good combustion." Never mind the fact that 99% of everything made has aluminum heads and runs just fine on the street.
Both of those guys each owned their own shop. So they were "experts." They were also "building engines before you were a twinkle in your mommies eye!" I've heard such BS from guys like that, how they built an engine that picked the front wheel off the ground when they revved it in neutral(in a street car, not a fuel drag race car), or how they knew guys with engines that had .125 bearing clearance and rattled like a spray can but could turn 10,000rpm and this that and the other.
Guys like that are completely full of crap, and continue to spread false information around. Granted, there's room for argument and discussion about the best way to build engine performance based on a variety of factors. That's how we figure things out and learn. But some of these guys are completely in their own world.
One of those guys also built a roots blown 347 once, with like 18lbs of boost it made a whopping 450hp on an engine dyno. If that gives you any idea.
03-22-2011, 01:59 AM
#16
Luckily he doesn't know how to turn on a computer so, no worries there.
The best way I really know how to ask is to tell him I am thinking of buying a set that had a guide replaced. Which isn't all that untrue. He will do anything he can to help me.
67 I have heard some crazy **** like that out of his mouth. He told me not to tell anyone but, one motor he had with a hydraulic cam, he put three thousandths clearance on the rockers to get it rev higher. Claimes it chatters like hell but, it works.
Anytime he builds a motor, he polishes the bearings. He reasoning is the motor is broke in when it leaves his shop. With an oil change at 300 miles. Only one I have heard that does that.
But, in fairness, this guy is way better than your examples.
The best way I really know how to ask is to tell him I am thinking of buying a set that had a guide replaced. Which isn't all that untrue. He will do anything he can to help me.
67 I have heard some crazy **** like that out of his mouth. He told me not to tell anyone but, one motor he had with a hydraulic cam, he put three thousandths clearance on the rockers to get it rev higher. Claimes it chatters like hell but, it works.
Anytime he builds a motor, he polishes the bearings. He reasoning is the motor is broke in when it leaves his shop. With an oil change at 300 miles. Only one I have heard that does that.
But, in fairness, this guy is way better than your examples.
Last edited by TrimDrip; 03-22-2011 at 02:34 AM.
03-23-2011, 10:46 PM
#17
Yeah, he didn't say that. Not even close.....He must have been referring to those heads and using the original guides. He did say he belived seats can not be put into an aluminum head. At least not on a Nissan or Toyota. Said he has seen them fall out many times on people's vehicles.
I knew it was my luck and I would have mistaken him. We do drink a bit so that has a lot to do with it.lol
Anyways, thanks for reading my dumb thread.
I knew it was my luck and I would have mistaken him. We do drink a bit so that has a lot to do with it.lol
Anyways, thanks for reading my dumb thread.
03-24-2011, 02:31 AM
#18
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
Yeah, he didn't say that. Not even close.....He must have been referring to those heads and using the original guides. He did say he belived seats can not be put into an aluminum head. At least not on a Nissan or Toyota. Said he has seen them fall out many times on people's vehicles.
I knew it was my luck and I would have mistaken him. We do drink a bit so that has a lot to do with it.lol
Anyways, thanks for reading my dumb thread.
I knew it was my luck and I would have mistaken him. We do drink a bit so that has a lot to do with it.lol
Anyways, thanks for reading my dumb thread.
03-24-2011, 06:48 AM
#19
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Charles Town WV
Posts: 2,288
seats falling out does happen seen it on stock stuff from the factory. I have also seen guides drop and hold valve off the seat make it miss and the with the valve opening and closing slid the guide back into place then the miss stopped took me a while to find that LOL. knock the guide out cut a groove for a ring put a snap ring on it put it back in the head fixed never happened again and not to any of the others. So yes it can happen and does but it dont happen to every car on the road. When it does happen it is from poor design most of the time. But that dont mean you cant put guides in a aluminum head or for that matter seats. when fix properly it dont happen
03-24-2011, 08:39 AM
#20
He mainly meant Toyotas and Nissan on the seats. I don't know which motors he is referring too. I am not sure who did the work on these cars when it has happened either. I don't see why anyone would put seats or guides in a head anyways when a when a used head could be had for so cheap. People around here are not rich. 500 dollars machine work or whatever is avoided when possible.
I have had a friend have the bad guides on a Clevor motor. Motor would crank and run fine. After about 10 minutes of running there was a noise coming from it and it would get louder and louder. The guy checked everyhting he thought it could be and had some people come and look at it. They couldn't figure it out. Well he said, if it is coming apart, it is doing it here and not at the track. He put it on about 7 grand until it went BOOM. After tearing it apart, he saw where a valve had stuck. The engine was built by a racing shop but, whoever did it didn't check the clearances on the guides. Then they pretty much told him to go **** himself since it was a race engine. Even though it was never raced or driven. He didn't even get a refund.
I have had a friend have the bad guides on a Clevor motor. Motor would crank and run fine. After about 10 minutes of running there was a noise coming from it and it would get louder and louder. The guy checked everyhting he thought it could be and had some people come and look at it. They couldn't figure it out. Well he said, if it is coming apart, it is doing it here and not at the track. He put it on about 7 grand until it went BOOM. After tearing it apart, he saw where a valve had stuck. The engine was built by a racing shop but, whoever did it didn't check the clearances on the guides. Then they pretty much told him to go **** himself since it was a race engine. Even though it was never raced or driven. He didn't even get a refund.
Last edited by TrimDrip; 03-24-2011 at 08:41 AM.