CID Vicious

Glad to see some interest brewing here.

As for the center bearing and all that concern, two thoughts:

1) Folks on both sides of the pond have put 560SE V8s into these cars, so I'd say you've got some leeway. The W123 chassis was designed with a V8 in mind, but the car was literally so popular that MB couldn't keep up with the demand of the 'boring' versions. Although the 280E with a stick is hardly boring

2) Screw all that - you're going to need a custom driveshaft anyway. Might as well start with the proper Ford part in the front and choose which pumpkin you'll be going with, add appropriate part, measure shaft, order.There are folks at the Peach Parts, benzforums.org and/or Super Turbo Diesel forums who have done a lot of research on the chassis and apparently there's a typical Dodge part that mates fine with the rear pumpkin.

2.5) The pumpkin is stout but no lsd available. Possibly, just possibly, there's a stock Ford driveshaft that would be of a correct length to use with an 8.8 IRS pumpkin. Would require custom axles (Ford inner MB outer) but that's probably cheaper/easier than getting a good limited slip for these cars. Unless you want to try sourcing an AMG part from the 70's.

240D's have something akin to 3.68 or 3.90 gears depending on the year, the shallower gear probably more likely.

300D's came in two flavors, turbo and non, non were ~3.23 turbo ~3.08.

Remember that this car was designed with 14" wheels and no optional upsize. I'd go, personally, with late model C230 wheels in the 'torque thrust' style, 17" all around. Fit the wheels first and then start messing around with cutting springs (absolutely ok on this suspension), the front springs sport 14 coils, and I believe the rears are 11. You can -3 front -1.5 rear and get a really, really good sporting setup, ideal even, but be prepared to spring for the skid plate to protect the pan, too.

Might get around it depending on the pan you go with but most likely it'll be the 5.0 double sump and believe me, pulling over and shoving Water Weld in a hole bleeding hot oil gets old quick. However, I was running lower profile tires on stock wheels and some 45/50 series tires on 17's would likely raise it up a bit even with the same setting, and I have no idea how better/worse a 5.0 would be in the same car with the same springs as yet. I also have no idea how rubbing would be an issue with said 17's but MB and other Euro makes tend to make the suspension do the heavy lifting, and not the tires, so if you go with stock C230 sizes you'll likely be ok.

Personally I'd take it slowly, I don't know of anyone who has 'seriously' done this and posted his settings, ie like 'serious' as in went to the auto cross or track day and posted whatever time in a field with X cars of Y type.

I'm thinking, after having lowered 3 of these cars, that when I get around to 5.0'ing a W123, I'm going to try and add wheel and keep as much wheel travel as possible. The 14" factory rollers run 185/70/14s on 240D, 205s on 300Ds, and they're balonies, to be sure. If you want handling get rid of the obvious slop (ie the giganto sidewalls) and proceed from there. I'd be surprised if muscle car folk especially weren't happy with a nice, mild front rake (like -1 or -1.5 coils) and stock rear.

Lesjofors (sp?) makes a heavy duty rear spring that folks use to get rid of the SLS suspension on the wagons and it would probably help quite a bit to control the rear and make the car more neutral without having to lower it and lose utility (not to mention camber and thus contact patch in a straight line - the rear suspension is NOT adjustable for camber, so if you lower it, you'll be negative all the time). The Lesjofors springs would likely have to be cut, refit, and cut again in small increments to really get it right.

However anyone who has done a similar project in a car with truly zero aftermarket options (there are a few spring companies out there who offer springs but they often - shocker! - require trimming to fit) the mere ability to actually cut and adjust springs in such a way is a blessing. And yes, I've driven my lowered cars, hard, my old 240D was quite a nice canyon carver. I had all three cars for extended times and no problems developed, and I've not yet heard of anyone complaining of a failure after properly cutting the spring, how-tos are all over the above mentioned forums, as are debates on how good of an idea it is.

There are other concerns - unrelated motor/trans going into unrelated body, surprise! - but I'll hold off here since it's already a huge post

CID Vicious

Also, I don't know about anyone else's direction, but I'm going after a very doable/liveable, semi-stock driving experience. Many Euro cars are damn good drives with modest amounts of power (many NA BMWs are sub 250hp, yet are considered sports cars by most who drive them). Said refined chassis with even a stock-ish V8 should be quite a fun time and the simpler I keep it, the more likely that I'll like the end result and want to drive it every day, not just on weekends.

That said, and considering I've been uncovering tests that show that the 5.0's main 'cork' is the awful, awful heads, and that it's fairly hotly cammed from the factory, I'm thinking a few simple mods, invest in a good set of aluminum heads, custom exhuast necessary anyway, and whatever I get, I get. 300hp would be quite fine by me, more even finer, but having it be tame and everyday drivable and getting whatever power I can while maintaining it is the goal.

At such an output level using a T5 is doable, hell the thing will probably never hook anyway . Scatter that and it's Tremec time.

Sticky tires, whatever combination of springs and sway bars proves to be 'correct', Bilstein HD shocks, and S class brakes. Many upsized brake options from the MB parts bin are swappable but late 80's S class binders are easy, early W126 vented disks bolt on even behind the factory 14's and require no trips to the junkyard to make work.

Simple, 300hp/3200lb car, German suspension, chassis, brakes, and a nice sleeper package to wrap it all up in - I've mistaken the W123 for a Volvo 240 while driving my own W123. To say it's a sleeper even in such a mild form would be no exaggeration.

Might not be able to face off with GT500s and ZL1s and the like but I'll look into it when I got the coin to try and beat the factory at it's own game - probably take more than the 60k they want!

Really, though, if it's swapped, done, and I like the result, hey, the 'making it faster' bit is all Mustang, shouldn't be too hard

DoctorEuroCar

Well Im about to go the exact same route. I have a 1994 Mercedes E320 and about to drop in a 1993 Mustang 5.0 v8 and Tremec 3550. I could give a hoot about the purists, this my darn car.

I have 20 years experience repairing and modifying European cars trained in Germany by Mercedes Benz.. that being said unless you have the bucks go get the hottest v8 or v12 you end up with a car that has excellent brakes, superb handling and about 100 hp less than it ought to have.

My last Mustang was a 1967 Convertible in 2008 now I have a 1994 Mercedes E320 Convertible that has been a custom turbo with 366rwhp for last 3 years, I', on the second transmission in two years and the turbo is tired.

I picked up a 93 5.0 block
and im going to build it, even with the best parts it wont come close to rebuilding the stock engine and trans which is also getting tired.

Last small block Ford engine I built for a customer did 404 rwhp NA from a 347 with AFR heads, with a single 750 carb...Im being conservative and plan to build a reliable powerplant with at least 350 ft lbs torque not to concerned with Hp, once i get it dialed in then ill look into forced induction to power my Benz. A/c is a must and everything must fit under hood with any hood scoop.

I say your project can be done because I have done it before 15 years ago when my welding/fabrication skills were entering preschool...

docmatt

I joined to revive this thread and add some information for those that may be considering this engine swap. I am close enough to completing a swap of a 1984 Mustang carburetod 5.0 with T5 manual transmission into a 1982 Mercedes W123 240D, that I can say it can be done without too much trouble. It is my first engine swap in a car, although I have done motorcycle swaps before. I was looking for a nice driving street machine rather than anything with crazy power. I plan to use it as my daily driver when it is too cold for motercycles. In this post I will give a few basic tips. I'll follow with multiple pictures showing the things that needed adapting and fabrication.

Basic Tips:
1. I used a carbureted motor for ease of installation, but after seeing the wiring diagrams for the fuel injected engine, I don't think it would be much more difficult. The carby engine fits with the hood closed and the air cleaner in place.
2. I bought a complete donor car which allowed me to get the transmission, drive shaft, instruments, and wiring. I think I might have saved a little money buying just what I needed, but it was nice knowing that the parts worked and fit together.
3. You will need exhaust manifolds from a Ford explorer. Reverse them so they point toward the front and there are no major clearance problems.
4. You will need a front sump oil pan and pickup or modify your pickup to fit a front sump pan. The pan and cross member will need minor hammering to fit well. (glad I didn't buy that sweet looking cast aluminum pan!) I added a dipstick to the front right corner of the pan.
5. I had a custom hose made to connect the Ford power steering pump to the Mercedes steering box. I think you may be able to find adapters to do the same thing for less money.
6. The mustang tachometer fits in the space for the Mercedes clock without too much trouble.
7. I used a lathe to modify the front Mercedes driveshaft to fit the T5 transmission. I think some clever and careful jigging would work just as well.
8. The Mercedes clutch slave cylinder did not have enough travel to disengage the T5 clutch. I switched to a Miata slave with a 3/4 inch bore and moved the pushrod further inboard on the lever. I'll know soon if it works.
9. I plan to use the stock Mercedes radiator. The volume looks about the same. I'll see soon...
10. My friend, a Mercedes mechanic, doesn't think the differential will hold up. I also think it will be geared too low. I'm thinking the stock tires will be the weak link. If necessary, I'll switch to a diff from a V8 car.
11. I'll post a picture of my wiring diagram, which should save lots of head scratching for anybody trying this.
12. I think air conditioning is a real possibility. I may add it later.


More to come!!!

docmatt

As of last week, the car is running and driving. It needs to have the exhaust fabricated. The gearing is low, so I am searching for a 2.47 ratio diff to replace the stock 3.69. The stubby front drive shaft I built is out of true or out of balance or both. It vibrates violently above 30 MPH. I will have a custom one piece shaft built. Most everything else works pretty well.. I will post pictures of the highlights, including mistakes that i learned from. The titles of the pictures explain.

docmatt

1982 mercedes 240d engine bay
Ford 5.0 test fit in W123 engine bay.
ford splined shaft welded to front of Mercedes shaft (unacceptable vibration above 30MPH) will have one piece shaft made.

docmatt

Mercedes clock, 1984 Mustang Tach
plastic cut to allow tach to fit. Should have cut plastic on tach a bit to make fit better.
Mercedes speedo cable with Mustang speedo cable
end cut on Mustang cable
Mustang cable fit to Mercedes speedo
rubber hose holds mustang cable to Mercedes speedo.
Back of instruments with Mustang tach in place
Front of instruments with mustang tach in place (note, slightly off center)

docmatt

Engine mounts to accept Ford 5.0 V8 in Mercedes W123
right engine mount
left engine mount
cross-member hammered for clearance
Front sump oil pan hammered for clearance. Don't forget to add a dipstick! I put it on the front right corner.
Oil pickup modified for front sump pan.
Ford explorer exhaust manifold point forward. Need heat shields around fuel lines (not shown)
Transmission mount made from square tubing and angle. mounts to stock location on Mercedes. Thick rubber pad.

docmatt

Bracket for mercedes throttle linkage
Bracket mounted on firewall turns Mercedes linkage 90 degrees to operate throttle on carb. Length of arms adjusted to get correct travel. Note stop welded to bracket to prevent linkage from going over-center and holding throttle open!

docmatt

The hydraulic clutch conversion took a few tries to get it to work. The Mercedes master is a 3/4 inch bore. I wanted to keep the master cylinder due to difficulties in working under the dash and swapping anything under there. The Mercedes slave cylinder has a larger bore, I think 7/8 inches. Not enough travel with the bracket I made. I modified the bracket to accept a Miata slave cylinder I had on hand (3/4 inch bore). Still, not quite enough. (But, in retrospect, if I had been able to bleed it adequately, it may have worked) Next, I got a slave for an Isuzu Rodeo V6 with 3/4 inch bore. It could be mounted directly to the bell housing, eliminating flex in the bracket, and pushing on the lever closer to the fulcrum. Third time was a charm! It was difficult bleeding the system. There is not much room to work with that cylinder. Plus, there is barely enough room for the line to reach the fitting. It needs to have fluid forced in through the bleeder valve from underneath. I used an oil pumping can which didn't work too well. I used an electric fuel pump which was OK, but I learned that the secret is to close the bleeder while the fluid is under pressure. I finally used a 60 ml syringe and closed the valve while holding pressure. Mercedes slave cylinder does not give enough travel.
Bracket modified to accept Miata slave cylinder.
Miata slave pushes more proximally on lever. May have worked if bled adequately.
Isuzu rodeo V6 slave mounts on T5 bellhousing.
Not much clearance for line. PITA to bleed. But it works!
Cut this tab for clearance for slave cylinder.
cutting tab
pattern for holes to drill in bellhousing.
Hole cut with 1 1/2 inch holesaw. Drill pilot first and use pilot to guide drilling hole in lever for pushrod. Bolts are in place to mount cylinder. Get your daughter to reach her small hand into bellhousing to fetch bolts when you drop them in there.