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2000AZ5.0GT 09-03-2014 11:27 PM

347 Build Suggestions
 
So.....I was planning on saving up over the next year or so, and buying a new (13'ish) 5.0 Mustang. Looking at the fact that I still have some obligations, such as student loans and such, I have changed my mind.

I've decided to stay with the 88'. Currently I think I pay 60/ish a month for full coverage (with high limits), and I've started a 347 build.

The parts I've order from Summit Racing:
Eagle Forged Crankshaft - Internally Balanced - 3.400" Stroke
Eagle Forged H-Beam Rods - 5.400"
Probe Forged Pistons - 4.030" - 2 valve reliefs

(I believe the compression will be on the order 9.2:1)

The parts I will be ordering (as time permits):
FRPP Boss Block - Standard Bore

The things I need to decide on are:
Heads/Cam/Intake

The car will primarily be a street car, but I also have (in my garage) the MM Grip Box (level 2 I think), a big brake kit/5 lug swap, MAF Conversion Kit, 24lb/hr injectors

If any type of racing will be done, it will be corner type stuff.

So, please help me pick out a good combo for the heads/cam/intake.

The intake I'll probably go with would be the TrickFlow StreetBurner, since it's still CARB legal (I don't live in Cali, but I still need to pass emissions)

Eventually, I plan on putting a 62mm turbo setup on it.

So please tell me what you think

tinman 09-04-2014 12:48 AM

IMHO, you need to start looking at cylinder heads. You want something with at least 190cc intake ports.
Also for a cam I would look at Comp Cams, they have a line of cams that are intended for stroker engines........

bluebeastsrt 09-04-2014 11:19 PM

I would look at a dart block and heads are huge. Trick flow makes some very nice heads.

2000AZ5.0GT 09-05-2014 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebeastsrt (Post 8424792)
I would look at a dart block and heads are huge. Trick flow makes some very nice heads.

Yeah, I've seen time and time again people here criticize others for choking their builds because they picked the wrong heads, so I'm just wondering what kind of stuff to look for.

I know combustion chamber affects compression, but is there another reason to go with a different volume combustion chamber.

I see the guy above said go with 190cc intake runner volume, is there anything else I need to be looking at?

I've heard that an e303 only makes (as in, improves over stock) power above like 3,000 RPM, so what kind of cam do I want to go with? Single Pattern, dual pattern?

When I build the engine, I honestly don't know if I'll swap it in before taking care of things like exhaust, clutch, transmission, etc, or if I'll swap it in and run it in it's basic form and taking the other things in a piecewise. I know I'll probably throw in a tubular K-member at the same time (because, ****, with the engine out there's no better time)

I've looked at Dart blocks, but honestly, I think a Boss Block, with the 4 bolt splayed main caps, for the price, is probably the best I can do, and it's not supposed to be this hugely powerful engine, I think 315-320 safe and reliable rwhp is what I'm looking for.

I've looked at trick flow, but honestly, I don't really know what I'm supposed to be looking for.

bluebeastsrt 09-05-2014 01:32 AM

I've read that the Boss block doesn't come finished honed like the dart block and any money saved,on initial price will be ate up with extra shop prep. Cams are a science all to themselves. When fordstrokers cut my cam they sent me a 2 page sheet asking questions like vehicle weight, stall speed of converter, how is the car to be mainly used, what rpm I plan to shift at, etc. Honestly I'd look into trick flows stage one or two cam for now and if you actually do turbo it down the road you can always get a cam to better match your setup.

mjr46 09-05-2014 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000AZ5.0GT (Post 8424799)
Yeah, I've seen time and time again people here criticize others for choking their builds because they picked the wrong heads, so I'm just wondering what kind of stuff to look for.

I know combustion chamber affects compression, but is there another reason to go with a different volume combustion chamber.

I see the guy above said go with 190cc intake runner volume, is there anything else I need to be looking at?

I've heard that an e303 only makes (as in, improves over stock) power above like 3,000 RPM, so what kind of cam do I want to go with? Single Pattern, dual pattern?

When I build the engine, I honestly don't know if I'll swap it in before taking care of things like exhaust, clutch, transmission, etc, or if I'll swap it in and run it in it's basic form and taking the other things in a piecewise. I know I'll probably throw in a tubular K-member at the same time (because, ****, with the engine out there's no better time)

I've looked at Dart blocks, but honestly, I think a Boss Block, with the 4 bolt splayed main caps, for the price, is probably the best I can do, and it's not supposed to be this hugely powerful engine, I think 315-320 safe and reliable rwhp is what I'm looking for.

I've looked at trick flow, but honestly, I don't really know what I'm supposed to be looking for.

you'd better do a lot more research on a boss block and stroker kits.......the prob with the boss block is the piston skirts are way to short to stand up to longevity....they pop out .5 inches below skirt...plenty of documented failures and there is only 1 or maybe 2 pistons that'll work in that block for stroker options and give the best possible chance for survival.......and it's not the ones you've listed most likely.....better talk to Jim at ford strokers.com and you'll get an earful on that......and seriously an e-303 in a stroker?? settin' yourself up for a real dud! And why are you looking at an aftermarket block if 320 rwhp is all you want?? or even a stroker for that matter of fact.........a 302 built right and stock block will do all of what you need.

2000AZ5.0GT 09-05-2014 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjr46 (Post 8424849)
you'd better do a lot more research on a boss block and stroker kits.......the prob with the boss block is the piston skirts are way to short to stand up to longevity....they pop out .5 inches below skirt...plenty of documented failures and there is only 1 or maybe 2 pistons that'll work in that block for stroker options and give the best possible chance for survival.......and it's not the ones you've listed most likely.....better talk to Jim at ford strokers.com and you'll get an earful on that......and seriously an e-303 in a stroker?? settin' yourself up for a real dud! And why are you looking at an aftermarket block if 320 rwhp is all you want?? or even a stroker for that matter of fact.........a 302 built right and stock block will do all of what you need.

Well, here's the plan, let me know what you suggest as the direction to go in.

First of all, I want to build the engine separately, out of the car, so I can still drive it. Coming up here on some great convertible weather in AZ in the fall, so I'd hate for the car to be out of commission.

347 isn't completely necesasry, but I would like a few more cubes. I care more about reliability than crazy horsepower numbers, and the aftermarket block was primarily intended for throwing a turbo on down the line. Running 520-560whp I didn't want to be looking at a split block.

I was aware that the boss block came with unfinished bores, and I was hesitant to go with the boss block anyway. I'm not sure I like the idea of a siamese bore block, since I won't be going with a big bore.

While I have those parts on order, summit has a great return policy, and it hasn't even shipped yet, so I can cancel here in the next few days and no harm-no fowl.

320whp was just a low estimate, and while yeah, I've seen guys with a 306 hit that number, I'm not sure that I'd be able to do it with only my experience.

Currently, the engine that is in the car has what looks like a S.O. shortblock with a H.O. intake manifold, and a regular 88 H.O. Speed Density computer. Obviously it's running pig rich right now, and I haven't driven it in about a month. I just recieved the MAF conversion in the mail, so over the next week or so I'll be wiring that up so that I can at least get propper A/F ratios going so it's not running horribly.

Would I like to hit 360-370rwhp? Absolutely. Do I think I'm capable, on my first solo engine build (I've had help with my previous engine build, this will be the first one where I wrench on every part of it)? no, especially since I seemed to have pick some poor parts.

So, if you were going to prepare a good 331/347 based engine build, which parts would you use? Definitely going forged for the Crank/Rods/Pistons, but aside from that, what should I do?

tinman 09-06-2014 12:05 AM

If I were building another stroker 302 I'd plan on at least $1000 for machine work and balancing.
You may be in trouble already with those pistons as 9+ compression ratio with a turbo is REALLY pushing things in most any gas engine. Also you may not be able to use those pistons with Trick-Flow heads as the valve reliefs for Trick-Fow's are different than for an 'inline' head....

2000AZ5.0GT 09-06-2014 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinman (Post 8425083)
If I were building another stroker 302 I'd plan on at least $1000 for machine work and balancing.
You may be in trouble already with those pistons as 9+ compression ratio with a turbo is REALLY pushing things in most any gas engine. Also you may not be able to use those pistons with Trick-Flow heads as the valve reliefs for Trick-Fow's are different than for an 'inline' head....


I had chosen 9.5:1 compression because my last build, which was a modular 4.6, had about 60,000 miles on the engine when I sold it, running 12-ish lbs of boost, 7,000RPM's, and Arizona weather. If you're saying turbo power is harder on the engine, I have no problem believing it, however I believe with a decently powerful base, like a 350-370bhp 347, throwing an extra 100-140hp on top shouldn't exert too much, but I could be wrong.

And yeah, I planned on spending a decent amount on machine shop labour, the brilliantly named "Phoenix Engine", refuses to even consider working on modern (fuel injected) 302's. Pretty amazing for a machine shop to turn down work, but hey, they must have one of those new types of business models, where money comes out of thin air.

At this point, with such varying opinions, I think it's almost a decent idea to just go with a standard 306, rather than stroking it at all. Ideally, I'd go back in time and not buy a car with the completely wrong engine, and just drive it stock, but sometimes we can't always do what we want.

mjr46 09-06-2014 07:23 PM

the only proper course to take if boost is in the future, is a dart block, build it to fit a big bore 347/363....put at least a FAC 190 tfs head on it and add a good turbo and depending on the boost level you choose, 500-600 rwhp will be no problem and the block will live forever and you'll have no worry about gernading it.

bluebeastsrt 09-07-2014 02:57 AM

Agreed, even then entry level dart block should be good for 1000whp. Hot rod magazine did a build and got 483whp out a dart 363 N/A.

2000AZ5.0GT 09-07-2014 03:19 AM

Now are we talking about the Dart Sportsman (SHP) blocks, or their Iron Eagle line? Cause I think that's like an extra 800-900 for the block alone

bluebeastsrt 09-07-2014 03:38 AM

The shp block is what I'm using it's about $100 more than a boss block. I plan on using 2-300 hp shot of nitrous on this block and fordstrokers tells me that the motor should last forever at the 600 to 800whp (depending on amount of nitrous I use) I'm hoping to be at when the car is complete. I run trick flow 190 fast as cast heads with stronger springs. A 830cfm Holley on top of a victor jr., custom cam. When I told the builder my goal of going at least 10.8 at at least 120mph N/A he told me if it couldn't do that he would personally come to jersey. Buy the car from me then set it on fire. So hes very confident of this set-up.

uedlose 09-07-2014 08:01 AM

But then the whole it has to pass emissions thing comes into play and there was only one turbo kit that was ever emission legal for a 5.0 push rod Mustang and that was the old incon twin turbo kit. Long out business and the kits are very hard to find and not cheap.

95gtconvert 09-07-2014 02:36 PM

I'll sell you my motor it's already pushing 330 and it's a stock block before getting fully rebuilt (which it will be this winter) it's got 202 heads and some other fun things it's out of an 87 and probably going into my 95 of someone doesn't buy it from me

2000AZ5.0GT 09-09-2014 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uedlose (Post 8425300)
But then the whole it has to pass emissions thing comes into play and there was only one turbo kit that was ever emission legal for a 5.0 push rod Mustang and that was the old incon twin turbo kit. Long out business and the kits are very hard to find and not cheap.

Pretty sure all I have to do is run catalytic converters and I'll pass Arizona emissions, (we have the sniffer, but that's about it) or just register it as a classic vehicle and not have to worry about emissions at all.

I also only have to have inspection every 2 years, my current one is good until March 2016, so in the worst case i would just pull the kit (8-14 hours really isn't that bad) for the week I needed to pass emissions, but i really think I'll be fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95gtconvert (Post 8425389)
I'll sell you my motor it's already pushing 330 and it's a stock block before getting fully rebuilt (which it will be this winter) it's got 202 heads and some other fun things it's out of an 87 and probably going into my 95 of someone doesn't buy it from me

if you weren't in WI, I'd probably take you up on that.

tinman 09-09-2014 09:51 PM

In Arizona all you have to do about emissions testing is get an address outside of the inspection areas.
You could register your to a post office box down in Casa Grande and be 100% legal....

95gtconvert 09-19-2014 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000AZ5.0GT (Post 8426025)
if you weren't in WI, I'd probably take you up on that.

well at least there's someone that would want it nobody around me looks far into craigslist for motors :icon_smile:

NoGo95GT 09-25-2014 04:35 PM

My 347 I ran in my 95 a few years back was a weenie build. CHP rotating assembly, AFR 185's, Comp Cam's XE274hr, box stock Cobra intake, shorty headers, etc. I left a lot of power on the table. It still made 351rwhp/380trq. On a 35 shot 382rwhp/422trq. I beat the crap out of that car and nothing ever broke. I will say though my compression was roughly 10:5. Here in Tx we are lucky to have 93 octane everywhere. I was in flight school in Scottsdale for 3 months. The best I could find was 91 locally. The car would ping using 91 octane. Just something to keep in mind with your build, since you live out there.

2000AZ5.0GT 09-26-2014 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGo95GT (Post 8430366)
My 347 I ran in my 95 a few years back was a weenie build. CHP rotating assembly, AFR 185's, Comp Cam's XE274hr, box stock Cobra intake, shorty headers, etc. I left a lot of power on the table. It still made 351rwhp/380trq. On a 35 shot 382rwhp/422trq. I beat the crap out of that car and nothing ever broke. I will say though my compression was roughly 10:5. Here in Tx we are lucky to have 93 octane everywhere. I was in flight school in Scottsdale for 3 months. The best I could find was 91 locally. The car would ping using 91 octane. Just something to keep in mind with your build, since you live out there.

Yeah, I'm aiming for low compression, mainly because of the Turbo route.

I'm getting close to ordering the 363 Liberator dart based short block (fully forged internals, internally balanced crank, and dished pistons) from FordStrokers, and then I'll probably go with some high flowing heads and a mild cam.

hopefully by feb/march-ish I'll have enough together to throw everything in the car. I'd say sooner than that, but I doubt everything will come together that well.


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