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2011 5.0 Rough Manual Shift

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Old 12-27-2010, 11:15 AM   #61
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If you just change the fluid yourself, Ford has no idea how widespread the issue is folks. And if your tranny needs repair down the road, you're setting yourself up for "NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY... OWNER INSTALLED NON SPEC FLUID".

Also, enough with the China-bashing. There hasn't been a single case reported on any mustang forum of a tranny failing due to a manufacturing defect. If you are having issues with your clutch and/or transmission, TAKE IT IN, call Ford, and tell them you are an unhappy 2011 Mustang owner.
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:20 PM   #62
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If you just change the fluid yourself, Ford has no idea how widespread the issue is folks. And if your tranny needs repair down the road, you're setting yourself up for "NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY... OWNER INSTALLED NON SPEC FLUID".

Also, enough with the China-bashing. There hasn't been a single case reported on any mustang forum of a tranny failing due to a manufacturing defect. If you are having issues with your clutch and/or transmission, TAKE IT IN, call Ford, and tell them you are an unhappy 2011 Mustang owner.
Actually, it is explicitly illegal for Ford void your warranty just because you use a non-Ford approved fluid. So long as the fluid is within the industry standard SAE specs for a tranny, United States Code specifically makes it illegal for Ford, or any other car company for that matter, to void the warranty.

I have heard of people being scared of putting 10W30 oil in their engines instead of the 5W20 recommended. Just because of the lie that they think their warranty is voided. Since 10W30 is an SAE spec oil for an engine, the Federal law will prohibit the dealer/company from voiding the warranty.

The Federal law that protects us consumers from having our warranties voided for something as trivial as using a different brand of lubricant or even any other part is covered under 15 U.S.C. § 2301 and its sub-chapters and sub-articles. This law has been in effect since 1975 (interestingly, also when the Feds passed auto emissions laws too).

But I agree about MAKING Ford do the fluid swap: They DO need to be made aware of a problem so they can fix it instead of saying something like "...we are aware of the problem, but it is too small for us to do anything about it."
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:42 AM   #63
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But I agree about MAKING Ford do the fluid swap: They DO need to be made aware of a problem so they can fix it instead of saying something like "...we are aware of the problem, but it is too small for us to do anything about it."
That was exactly the problem with the Patriot. Not enough owners bitching about it...and the fanbois took up the chorus of "what's the big deal, it's just the hood"....

My local Ford dealership is a truck dealer...in a small rural town. Cletus ain't touching my car. I'll drive it down to civilization for anything other than oil changes...but everyone should get their car down to register the problem.
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:05 PM   #64
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The warranty issue is why i had the dealership put in the new fluid. also just crossed the country 3000 miles on the new fluid transmission is like new. still waiting on the recall to put my worries to bed but so far its running great.

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Old 01-05-2011, 05:40 PM   #65
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Good to hear that you have your issues fixed with your trany.

As for mine, right now, I am at over 6500 miles on the ODO, and so far, no major failures. Just the usual occasional annoying rough shifting form 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd. All the other times, it shifts very well.
The hard shifting aside, (i.e. when it is not happening), I believe I have acclimated myself to driving a manual again such that I can shift through the gears seamlessly and as smoothly as if I were driving an automatic.


Also, I cannot remember who challenged me to find a published source that the MT82 is rated less than the engine crank 390 ft-lbf torque. I just happened to find it the other day when trying to find the gear ratios of this gear box. The information is published directly form Getrag, and the MT82 is rated to take about 382 ft-lbf torque.

This spec comes form their data on their website:
http://www.getrag.de/en/239

The rated torque spec at the crank is written in Newton-meters, but 520 Newton-meters is 382 ft-lbf.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:26 AM   #66
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Everyone is assuming the 520 IS the MT82 but we don't really know. I'd find it hard to believe the Ford-specific unit wasn't upgraded to handle more torque. I think a real challenge is to find the specs for the MT82 at Getrag.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:43 PM   #67
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Well, I can't take it anymore. I'm at 7600 miles now and it seems to keep getting worse. I'm going to call the dealership soon and drop it off. I hope all they have to do is put in the additive.

I've got a laundry list now too.

-notchy transmission
-squeek from the brakes (like the pads are on the squealers)
-driver seat "clicks" when pulling away from a stop
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:14 PM   #68
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Everyone is assuming the 520 IS the MT82 but we don't really know. I'd find it hard to believe the Ford-specific unit wasn't upgraded to handle more torque. I think a real challenge is to find the specs for the MT82 at Getrag.
To say that Ford spec is stronger than 520 N-m is also an assumption.

Right now, all we know from what is published by Getrag themselves is the MT82 is designed and rated at 520 N-M. Ford never published otherwise. Heck, Ford never published the gear ratios of the MT82, at least not what I found in official Ford websites and in my owner's manual.
The gear ratios were discovered by professional shops and racers who more or less dissected the trannies to see how they can improve them. For now, unfortunately, none of those shops offer a beefed up MT82 for sale yet. Would be nice if they did, just like how they take C4 trannies and bullet proof those to take 800 ft-lbf torque. And of course, the failures were only discovered by us, the end users (some end users being professional shops and racers).

A professional racer has documented his own problems of the MT82. In his words, when you begin to push for high performance (for example, running 10's at the drag strip), the tranny is not up for the task. Funny, the stock 6R80 with only a tune and stall converter will beat out the MT82 as far as taking performance upgrade punishment.

Now, I do recognize this is only one guy, and other performance shops have thrown on all sorts of high power upgrades on the Coyote and their stock MT82 trannies are still alive, but those are only short term runs so far. Only time will tell how their stock MT82s will last. And we have to admit that the MT82 was never used in a Mustang before.

Will Ford in the future order Getrag to make the MT82 stronger? Of course, when the Coyote HP from the factory starts to climb. If Getrag doesn't, Ford will dump them and probably go with Tremec again, like the TR6060. Other performance cars of the same league as the Mustang use the TR6060, and their "premium" versions cost around the same price as a '11 GT Premium. So the argument that the MT82 saves money is false. The MT82 probably costs Ford as much as the TR6060 costs Chevy to put that into the Camaro.

For the Coyote as it is now, since the vast majority of us (this includes me) only have CAIs and tunes and some suspension upgrades, the MT82 in its stock rating should serve us well. But is more of us go forced induction and/or do more comprehensive power upgrades, the MT82 will become overwhelmed and fail.
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:20 AM   #69
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I just got a little update from the guy that sold me the car down in Fontucky. Asked him if he could stick his head in the conversation and see what he could find out.

Ford doesn't want anyone replacing the fluid or adding lubricants, and they're working on it...
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:09 AM   #70
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I just got a little update from the guy that sold me the car down in Fontucky. Asked him if he could stick his head in the conversation and see what he could find out.

Ford doesn't want anyone replacing the fluid or adding lubricants, and they're working on it...
That actually is great news! I never had any idea that Ford actually considered the MT82 problems big enough to mess with.

If he is able to find out anything for corporate Ford, please do ask him to let us know what to do.
Aside from changing fluids or adding friction modifiers, I heard that part of the shifting problems stems from when the tranny is under torque load of the engine but this could be addressed by using the mounts used on the '12 Boss. If the Boss mounts are the key, ask him to let us know as well as the TSB # assigned to the issue and the description of the fix.

Also, can you ask him to find out what the MT82 we have behind our Coyotes are rated at? This will put this thought to rest.
If Ford uses a different spec MT82 than what is published by Getrag, ask him to see if he can find out what the rating is.
If it is the same specs as advertised by Getrag, I guess all he can say is "It is the same as published by Getrag."
http://www.getrag.de/en/239

But none the less, I am comforted that Ford is actually on this one to fix it.
Ford's actions to actually fix problems we have gives me great confidence in my purchase. I find it honorable of Ford for doing their best to keep us satisfied, even despite our constant griping.
Hell, there is a documented case right here in MF where Ford fixed someone's 'Stang by replacing the entire engine and resetting his drivetrain warranty beginning a zero miles again!
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:15 AM   #71
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FYI:

Brought the car in for the flywheel/clutch assembly/transmission replacement last night. Just got a call saying Ford Engineering intervened and asked that the dealer pause the repair in order to "implement 2 changes that should solve the problem for good."

Change 1: "6 newly designed bolts" (I assume for the pressure plate... dealer just said they come in packs of 3 and 2 packs are required) need to be ordered. They are in very limited supply (backordered) so I'm going to pickup the car and await their call when the bolts arrive.

Change 2: XT-11-QDC fluid should be used in the new transmission. For those of you who don't know, Ford's transmission fluid matrix lists XT-M5-QS as the correct fluid for the MT82, while the owner's manual lists XT-11-QDC. Ford engineering is now confirming that the Getrag-recommended XT-M5-QS should NOT be used... XT-11-QDC is, indeed, the correct fluid. XT-11-QDC is the same fluid used in the new Dual Clutch Fiesta transmission.

One step closer!!!!! YAY!
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:27 PM   #72
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I can also confirm that the issue is related to the 6 bolts that hold the pressure plate in place I have been waiting on these bolts for 6 weeks now. I sent a letter to ford and I have been able to get the dealer to make one car payment and ford is making another payment as well. The bolts stretch which is causing the issue. I am getting a new clutch transmission bolts pressure plate and a new bracket to resolve a tsp for a clutch stay out issue when shifting at high speeds. These issues are happening on cars that were manufactured before June 2010
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:56 AM   #73
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Does anyone have any Official documentation from Ford that states the correct fluid for the MT-82 transmission.

I have found conflicting reports. Reading different forums, one dealer has an email from Ford that states XT-M5 -QS is the correct fluid, yet another states that Ford Enigneering says XT-11-QDC is the correct fluid??????????
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:25 AM   #74
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Jim, my point was that nowhere on Getrag's site is the MT82 identified. The 520 Getrag sells to the rest of the world may have been what the Ford/Getrag joint venture started with. I think you'll have to present evidence on the Ford-Getrag site indicating what the actual MT82's torque rating is before we start assuming it is underrated for the motor.

I digress

Direct from Ford Powertrain Engineering (and your owner's manual): Ford engineering is now confirming that the Getrag-recommended XT-M5-QS should NOT be used... XT-11-QDC is, indeed, the correct fluid. XT-11-QDC is the same fluid used in the new Dual Clutch Fiesta transmission. Again, evidence that the MT82 is not a standard Getrag unit. It sounds like the Ford-spec synchronizers are not playing well with the Getrag-spec fluid.

FYI: 2011 Mustangs with MT82 built beginning August 24, 2010 received:

- New synchro rings (1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 5th and 6th outer rings, reverse)
- New Reverse gear (output shaft)


Mine just says on the door jam it was built 8/10. Wonder what day?

I suspect 8/23/10... hope the new tranny has the Job2 updates!

Stay tuned!!! I suspect we'll have an official fix as soon.

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Old 01-08-2011, 08:22 PM   #75
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For that link, yes, you are light. It specifically does not say MT82. I am making the presumption here that the guys who referred that page to me are saying that specific model is the MT82.
But of course, just like you say I should not assume the MT82 is rated less, I too say the converse holds true: one cannot assume that it is, even though that assumption does make sense.


Anyway, for the tranny fix, as there a TSB yet? Or is Ford holding off to issue a TSB number until they can develop a fix? And for the shortage of proper bolts, did they mention when they expect to get more soon?
Though I have not had any major failures like you did, I am a proponent of the "better safe than sorry" saying. Armed with a TSB, I can go to my dealer and address the problem before it becomes one.
BTW, my car was built before August. I haven't looked at my door sticker yet, but I know for sure it was before August because I had possession of my car prior to that.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:20 AM   #76
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The fact that there are changes in parts for the MT82 in the Mustang, while forums listing running changes for the Ford Transit panel van and Land Rover Defender 2 don't, points to a Mustang-specific build of the MT82. I think it's safe to assume Ford installed a transmission capable of handling the power output of the motor (in their halo car). Most of the banter online is coming from owners searching for "obvious" solutions to problems they're having. It's human nature I guess. Keep in mind that none of the 7 forums I frequent show mass reports of transmission replacements. If the shift issues were due to a transmission incapable of the 5.0 torque, we'd all have a LOT more going on than worn synchronizers.

In the case of this issue, there is no TSB. For pre-8/24/10 built cars, the grinding is caused by the synchronizers. They are not working correctly for 1 of 2 reasons:

1. The pressure plate bolts backed out not allowing full disengagement of the clutch during shift changes, causing premature wear of the synchronizers.

2. The synchronizers are not playing well with the Getrag-spec fluid at low temperatures or in moderate climates until the fluid warms up. The grinding eventually causes enough damage to the synchronizers that grinding occurrs all the time.

Considering the overwhelming majority of those reporting problems admit to owning cars built before 8/24/10, it sounds like Ford has this solved: they redesigned the synchronizers, redesigned the pressure plate bolts, and changed the tranny fluid. At the moment, the newly designed pressure plate bolts are on backorder. Also, dealers cannot currently order parts for the MT82... Their only option is to replace the tranny whole. That is an expensive proposition and overkill when they could simply replace the synchronizers and swap to new fluid. For those of you concerned about metal particles from the synchronizers in the transmission, don't. Synchronizers are the most common parts replaced in modern manual transmissions. These are hardened gears and any metal from the synchronizers settle at the bottom of the case. Some manufacturers even install magnets in the cases to attract these particles. A simple fluid swap is sufficient.

I think Ford will issue an official fix once they have a supply of new synchronizers on hand. Once a dealer confirms the problem isn't related to the pressure plate bolts, the official fix will probably state that the fluid should be drained and replaced with the Fiesta DCT type. If the problem persists, replace the suspect synchronizers. Sit tight everyone. If you're having problems shifting, bring it in now and confirm it is not because of the pressure plate issue. If your bolts are fine, you'll be told there is no solution yet. Get a case number from Ford Customer Care and ask them to notify you once an official fix is available.

At least we can drive the cars with this annoyance until a fix is posted. FYI: the reason my transmission is being replaced is because Ford used my car as a guinea pig to test how adding friction modifier might help. They are concerned about long-term damage so they are simply replacing it.

Last edited by jmatero; 01-09-2011 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:38 PM   #77
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...If you're having problems shifting, bring it in now and confirm it is not because of the pressure plate issue. If your bolts are fine, you'll be told there is no solution yet. Get a case number from Ford Customer Care and ask them to notify you once an official fix is available...
I intend to do this. I was going to rotate my own tires, but I think I will use it now as an excuse to bring my car in, and with that order, I will ask them to also inspect the clutch and clutch bolts and mention my occasional hard shifts. I hope they can replicate it since my rough shifting is actually occurring LESS than when my car was brand new. I can only guess that my problems might have been from the tranny still being tight (not broken in) and the problem abated some.

But none the less, arming myself with a case number is something I want to have to arm myself with.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:08 AM   #78
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Jim, I agree. Either I have gotten used to the rough 1-2 shift or it is not occurring that often. Even when cold it doesn't seem as bad as it was. I'm still holding out to see what the eventual verdict will be. 5400 and counting. Installing GT 500 axle backs this week. I liked the Roush, but more I heard them they had a "Glasspack" sound at WOT. Being a owner of a fox 5.0 I wanted something a little more even and not raspy. Still loving the Coyote though!
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:53 PM   #79
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Build date on mine is 05/25/10, so it fits with the earlier guesses. Flat Rock final assembly if it matters.

Planning on giving the mechanic a call later in the week to see if he found out anything.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:29 AM   #80
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". . . XT-11-QDC fluid should be used in the new transmission. For those of you who don't know, Ford's transmission fluid matrix lists XT-M5-QS as the correct fluid for the MT82, while the owner's manual lists XT-11-QDC. Ford engineering is now confirming that the Getrag-recommended XT-M5-QS should NOT be used... XT-11-QDC is, indeed, the correct fluid. XT-11-QDC is the same fluid used in the new Dual Clutch Fiesta transmission."


Can we say for sure that the XT-M5-QS is what originally came in the car (at least the earlier builds)? I wouldn't mind changing out to the XT-11-QDC to see if it helps the shifting in cold weather (since it would be hard to deny warranty when the owner's manual calls for it), but I don't want to go through the trouble if the car came with that fluid already.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:29 AM
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