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5.0L V8 Technical Discussions Any questions about the 'Coyote' engine, transmission, exhaust, tuners/CAI, or gearing can be asked here!

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Old 02-21-2011, 11:06 PM   #11
Mr.Bape
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That is ******* insane. I agree with 908ssp though, not really practical for street or DD's.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:53 PM   #12
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In my opinion if your gonna mod the car in search of HP to be around 500 rwhp or so....then whipple/twin screw FI is the way to go. Most of the time when driving normal the car seems stock and issue free, you only notice the HP/mod when the car is at WOT. Generally there are no problems with FI as far as tune issues and break downs occurring. The FI cars require little maintenance.

A lot of people I know, my experience and read about on the different forums with cams/heads on either the 4.6 3V or 5.0 are always having minor but, irritating problems. The problems are with idle, cel light on due to some tune issue, ran like crap yesterday but, running good today....who knows why?, or breaking parts. The car becomes more fickle and requires a lot of attention....which could be a PITA. For the most part we don't encounter these reoccurring issues when using the FI that makes responsible/reasonable HP.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:52 AM   #13
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What makes it not streetable or suitable for DD? it's not some aggresive cam, it's just a regrind on the stock cams, they say it even idles like stock, they are just ported stock heads. keep your rpms down and you wont be having the gobs of power it takes to break loose, I don't see how you guys can figure that.

As far as reliability of N/A vs F/I, i think this build looks more reliable than FI, but either can have their problems.

edit: nvm, i see you guys are saying not enough power downlow, you guys dont have the 6spds so i'll fill you in if you have 3.73s and if you shift it at 7500, where you are now making tons of power still with the new intake/heads/cams, you drop back in the perfect sweet spot for maximum power. So i dont see how that is bad for street use. gearing can always help you out if you need to be in the higher revs.


Or maybe i dont get what you are saying, like the idiot salesman at the dealership telling me my GT doesn't pull around town like their v6 torque monsters do because they somehow have more downlow power? i was like.. wtf are you guys smoking? i've heard that repeated by a bunch of v6 owners too.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:23 PM   #14
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I actually discussed this in the trading in the camaro SS thread.

heads = 1500, cams=899, exhaust=1000, intake manifold=350, cai+tuner=600, total cost: 4349.

Plus, you can always had some n2o to the mix. I haven't seen any pricing on the superchargers but I expect them to be 5500+ but, i also expect the whipple puts out a lot more power considering they are getting low 10s with it.
$1,500 for cylinder heads and $900 for cams sounds too cheap, but i'm going to search right now.


Ahhh there used cores for heads and regrinds on the cams or an additional $600 for new cams. That's not too bad.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:52 PM   #15
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A regrind on a cam is a more aggressive cam or it won't make more power. The variable cam timing can tame some of the poor torque character out of it but only if it is not locked out which many cams require. More over lap causes a loss in low end but gain in top end.

I wish I had power curve chart to show you. The area under the curve is the power the engine makes at different rpms. So the more area under the curve the wider and more usable the power is the easier the power is to engage. SC cars have much more area under the curve.

Think of it this way which would you rather drive a 500 hp power 5 liter or 500 hp 7 liter? The hp is the same but the 7 liter will stomp the 5 and the SC is like the 7 liter.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
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I actually discussed this in the trading in the camaro SS thread.

heads = 1500, cams=899, exhaust=1000, intake manifold=350, cai+tuner=600, total cost: 4349.
Of course, this assumes not paying someone else to do the work. And even if you don't you still need a DYNO tune to get the same results (which btw haven't been duplicated YET) as they did in this case. So throw another 5 bills in for the dyno tune. Yes canned tunes are pretty good but they aren't going to be as good especially in this situation with aftermarket cams, heads, AND exhaust.

And if you pay someone else to do the exhaust ($1000 is a cheap one) and the cams? Aye carumba.

You are better off with the supercharger which is going to not only make more power but be the type of thing you can install on your own easier than fighting headers on a garage floor or dealing with cams and pulling cylinder heads.

These results are impressive but I honestly think the supercharger and leaving the rest of it alone is still a far better "value".
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:05 PM   #17
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdcOqkpKmug
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:38 PM   #18
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sounds mean!
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
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A regrind on a cam is a more aggressive cam or it won't make more power. The variable cam timing can tame some of the poor torque character out of it but only if it is not locked out which many cams require. More over lap causes a loss in low end but gain in top end.

I wish I had power curve chart to show you. The area under the curve is the power the engine makes at different rpms. So the more area under the curve the wider and more usable the power is the easier the power is to engage. SC cars have much more area under the curve.

Think of it this way which would you rather drive a 500 hp power 5 liter or 500 hp 7 liter? The hp is the same but the 7 liter will stomp the 5 and the SC is like the 7 liter.
The H/C/I gets you much more power at higher revs, you can shift much later, so you don't fall down into lower power levels so overall, with the same rwhp/rwtq you are making more power for longer so it is actually faster in the 1/4 mile and better on a road course. so nope, i think you are wrong in every respect. the supercharger still drops off big time at 7000rpm, the HCI keeps making power to 8000rpm so you aren't even falling under the curve when you shift, you are staying in peak power.

5.0 DOHC vs 7.0 DOHC same bhp? i can't imagine how much that sucker would weigh, i'll vote for the 5.0 winning in the same vehicle.
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:49 AM   #20
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i agree completely with Mishri. I've had a supercharged vortech 2006 turning 430 rwhp and my current 5.0 at 410. The 2006 did snap your head back a little more but my current car is faster. It revs higher and has 6 gears. I'm also not afraid of detonation like i was with my 2006. Producing high horsepower at high revs allows me to take better advantage of gearing. That is as true on the street as at the track. Ferrari's turn excellent quarter mile times even though they don't produce a lot of torque. A supercharger and intercooler are going to weigh at least 70 pounds (Vortech) either right on your front axle or right in front of it in the case of a vortech or paxton. Not such a great idea on a nose heavy car. Also there is the issue of heat soak and the stress on the internals that forced induction produces that is absent in a cam regrind and enhanced breathing. JPC is getting the most out of the engine without adding weight or creating additional stress. naturally aspirated horsepower provided it is done correctly is vastly superior to slapping on a supercharger which is admittedly good for quarter mile times but not much else. I'm trying to lighten my front end not make it heavier. And show me the usable street tires that can handle all 600 pound feet of torque? Remember gentlemen at some point you have to turn the wheel. I prefer to do it without the extra weight on my front end, especially in this car. All around that horsepower and no weight added is the best deal going. and 480 pounds of torque and 583 flywheel horsepower on a 3600 pound car is more than enough to dominate on the street. I would bet that car can turn a quarter in the 11 on the stock Pirelli's. that is super super car performance and vastly superior to the Shelby.

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Old 03-02-2011, 01:49 AM
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