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Ford is getting tough on warranty for mod cars

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Old 11-29-2011, 12:52 PM   #41
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I know Nuke is right........I'm just trying to weigh the facts of............is another 30whp really worth jeopardizing my car.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:32 PM   #42
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I know Nuke is right...
"Once, I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken."

Well, it's your vehicle and you gotta do what YOU gotta do. I don't mean to be callin' anyone on their choices other than trying to bring up some facts (and I'll be the first to admit that I'm not too diplomatic about it). You can get more from your car and safely. IMO, there's just as much chance for trouble stock as there is CAI & tuned.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:49 PM   #43
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"Once, I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken."

Well, it's your vehicle and you gotta do what YOU gotta do. I don't mean to be callin' anyone on their choices other than trying to bring up some facts (and I'll be the first to admit that I'm not too diplomatic about it). You can get more from your car and safely. IMO, there's just as much chance for trouble stock as there is CAI & tuned.
That is and how I felt with the last one........I think I will come out of my shell in the spring and just say F it........the glory of what one ponders.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:06 PM   #44
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I’ll pose a question I have done on another forum. Hypothetically speaking would one be able to get a second PCM (which sell for $500 on Tously Fords site) and then have it matched to your car. Then swap it out for your original and put the tune on that one. If you ever have to take the car to the dealer for warranty work just swap the new one you got since that is the one that ford has on file. Also swap out the CAI.

I know that an extra $500 would bring the total to over 1K for just 30HP but to some that might be worth it. I’m just curiouse to see if that would work.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:08 PM   #45
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Iíll pose a question I have done on another forum. Hypothetically speaking would one be able to get a second PCM (which sell for $500 on Tously Fords site) and then have it matched to your car. Then swap it out for your original and put the tune on that one. If you ever have to take the car to the dealer for warranty work just swap the new one you got since that is the one that ford has on file. Also swap out the CAI.

I know that an extra $500 would bring the total to over 1K for just 30HP but to some that might be worth it. Iím just curiouse to see if that would work.
If it's the same thread I'm thinking of, we pretty much proved that wasn't feasible since Ford has to swap the PCMs due to the PATS system...
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:51 PM   #46
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If it's the same thread I'm thinking of, we pretty much proved that wasn't feasible since Ford has to swap the PCMs due to the PATS system...
It may be the same thread. If your refereeing to the electronic device in the key that communicates with PCM in order to allow the car to start than wouldnít having two keys each tied to a different PCM work?
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:59 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by devildog1679 View Post
Iíll pose a question I have done on another forum. Hypothetically speaking would one be able to get a second PCM (which sell for $500 on Tously Fords site) and then have it matched to your car. Then swap it out for your original and put the tune on that one. If you ever have to take the car to the dealer for warranty work just swap the new one you got since that is the one that ford has on file. Also swap out the CAI.

I know that an extra $500 would bring the total to over 1K for just 30HP but to some that might be worth it. Iím just curiouse to see if that would work.
COULD it be done? Probably.
Would you get caught doing it? YES.
Being as FORD is the only way to do so, if I were working at the dealership and you came in requesting a new ECU, and asking to have it coded to a new key...I'd be pretty suspicious. "Why does this guy need a new ECU and key for his <10,000 mile car...that is still under warranty????"
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:30 PM   #48
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I'm pretty sure it's more than the key that has to be reprogrammed.
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:10 PM   #49
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COULD it be done? Probably.
Would you get caught doing it? YES.
Being as FORD is the only way to do so, if I were working at the dealership and you came in requesting a new ECU, and asking to have it coded to a new key...I'd be pretty suspicious. "Why does this guy need a new ECU and key for his <10,000 mile car...that is still under warranty????"
Somone stole it It happened to my Camaro and Mercedes. Either way it's way to much of a head ache to make it worht it.

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I'm pretty sure it's more than the key that has to be reprogrammed.
I read the workshop manual and it seem's to be as simple as them matching the PCM to the VIN then codeing the keys.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:36 AM   #50
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I have intake tune exhaust and its lowered and they have no problem doing warranty work on my new 2011's transmission. Did i stiff arm a little when i walked in yes. did i let them push me around no. All about finding the right dealership. I was honest and up front. Walked in told em what i had done and asked if they would honor warranty. if you try to go around the system and defeat its purpose then you are wrong. And if all else fails a few cases of beer go a long way.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:24 AM   #51
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I have intake tune exhaust and its lowered and they have no problem doing warranty work on my new 2011's transmission. Did i stiff arm a little when i walked in yes. did i let them push me around no. All about finding the right dealership. I was honest and up front. Walked in told em what i had done and asked if they would honor warranty. if you try to go around the system and defeat its purpose then you are wrong. And if all else fails a few cases of beer go a long way.
^^^ This.

I totally agree here. I do the same thing. I tell the tech manager all my mods up front. If I hear any S*** about it, I simply walk out and take my business to the next dealership who is much more understanding.

At the mere sight of a CAI kit, I had techs tell me "your warranty is void" which is an absolute lie. I become extremely pissed with such morons and tell them otherwise.
Eventually, I do find the right dealership to work with, and they are the ones who earn my money. To the liars, I make it clear to those tech shops that they lost my business and money.

Bottom line to my point here to anyone just stumbling on this thread: Do not let the dealership techs lie to you and intimidate you. Know the laws and consumer protections.
But on your own part to maintain the integrity of consumer protection, for gawd sake, DO NOT FRAUD. If you F*** up your car by modding way beyond OEM part specs, face the facts and be responsible and pay for the repairs yourself.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:30 AM   #52
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Bottom line to my point here to anyone just stumbling on this thread: Do not let the dealership techs lie to you and intimidate you. Know the laws and consumer protections.
But on your own part to maintain the integrity of consumer protection, for gawd sake, DO NOT FRAUD. If you F*** up your car by modding way beyond OEM part specs, face the facts and be responsible and pay for the repairs yourself.
Agreed 100% and then some.
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:55 PM   #53
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There is a bit more to it than that. Plus, the information about your vehicle is much more detailed when viewed with engineering software than it is at a dealership with the IDS scan tool. If Ford really wanted to know everything about your computer they could have the dealer ship it to Dearborn or they could just use WebEx to take control of your vehicle session and do it remotely.

There is only really one way to keep your PCM data virgin and I'm not going to share it. Plus, it still isn't perfect because anyone willing to do what must be done likely has other mods that aren't so easily disguised.

Consider this too..... if everyone knows (including the dealerships) that something as simple as a CAI will not work properly without a tune and you show up with a CAI and no visible tune.... what do you think they will conclude?

The more mickey mouse clandestine warranty fraud games you play, the more games the maker and dealers will play to force you into court.

Here's a good story:

I know of a case that went to arbitration of a guy with a 4.6 3v Mustang that had a broken connecting rod and gobs of collateral damage. Completely wasted longblock. No signs of modification other than a piece of casting on the RH cylinder head that was strangely ground down. Ford was aware that a certain supercharger kit required this exact grounding down of the head casting in order for the blower to be mounted correctly. Eventhough he had no visible modifications to the car, his claim was denied by the arbitrator because there was absolutely no reason for someone to take a grinder to a head in that manner other than do accomodate a specific supercharger kit.
"There is only really one way to keep your PCM data virgin and I'm not going to share it."
With the above comment you have no business being on this forum. If you don't want to share just go away. You probably have no idea any way.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:14 PM   #54
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"There is only really one way to keep your PCM data virgin and I'm not going to share it."
With the above comment you have no business being on this forum. If you don't want to share just go away. You probably have no idea any way.
Experience has taught me that the OP of that is a pita... he's on my ignore list so I don't have to read through his trolololing unless someone quotes him. This isn't the first time he's shown up in a thread spewing his "Ford is always right and the customer is always wrong" bs.

Some people just like starting controversy and needlessly pissing people off ... I suppose that's why the ignore feature exists in the first place.
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:56 AM   #55
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Experience has taught me that the OP of that is a pita... he's on my ignore list so I don't have to read through his trolololing unless someone quotes him. This isn't the first time he's shown up in a thread spewing his "Ford is always right and the customer is always wrong" bs.

Some people just like starting controversy and needlessly pissing people off ... I suppose that's why the ignore feature exists in the first place.
I agree. I hope I am a reasonable person by seeing both sides of the coin, from the side of us, the consumers, and also on the side of Ford, who has seen their fair share of warranty fraud, but he is completely one sided in his arguments and has posted no regards for any sort of consumer protection at all.
We all agree fraud only hurts everyone, not just Ford. But eliminating consumer protections does not fix the problem at all.

This is only my thought, but it seems like to me that he wants to eventually suggest to eliminate of consumer protection. He has not said it overtly, so I have no proof, but my feelings are unfortunately jumping the gun.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:52 PM   #56
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I agree. I hope I am a reasonable person by seeing both sides of the coin, from the side of us, the consumers, and also on the side of Ford, who has seen their fair share of warranty fraud, but he is completely one sided in his arguments and has posted no regards for any sort of consumer protection at all.
We all agree fraud only hurts everyone, not just Ford. But eliminating consumer protections does not fix the problem at all.

This is only my thought, but it seems like to me that he wants to eventually suggest to eliminate of consumer protection. He has not said it overtly, so I have no proof, but my feelings are unfortunately jumping the gun.
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Experience has taught me that the OP of that is a pita... he's on my ignore list so I don't have to read through his trolololing unless someone quotes him. This isn't the first time he's shown up in a thread spewing his "Ford is always right and the customer is always wrong" bs.

Some people just like starting controversy and needlessly pissing people off ... I suppose that's why the ignore feature exists in the first place.
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"There is only really one way to keep your PCM data virgin and I'm not going to share it."
With the above comment you have no business being on this forum. If you don't want to share just go away. You probably have no idea any way.
You people are a piece of work. Perhaps I have a conflict of interest in mentioning how to do this? Perhaps I have a moral conflict as well? How hypocritical to suggest fraud is wrong and then make or agree with a statement like this! If warranty fraud is wrong WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU BE OFFENDED BY MY LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO PARTICIPATE IN SHARING HOW YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH FRAUD?

I'm frankly not surprised. Just disgusted. The rationale capable of this nonsense is the same rationale that takes from my previous comments that I am completely one-sided and believe the consumer is always wrong and Ford is always right. You couldn't be more incorrect and you simply use your inability to accept responsibility for your own mistakes as a reason to suggest that I am "not on your side". Pathetic, really.

I have more experience in the automove service industry than many of you could possibly imagine and I share my thoughts/opinions/knowledge with this board ONLY to prevent people from getting into a situation in which they feel they've been ripped off or had their warranty unjustly denied. My experience has shown that many enthusiast owners ARE NOT FULLY COMPETENT in matters of warranty coverage when their car is modified. Because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT MEATHEADS LIKE YOU I choose to chime in on discussions like this.

I'm sorry for not allowing you to perpetually contaminate everyone with your ignorance and immaturity. From now on, instead of reading your posts and thinking "Hey, I might be able to help this guy understand what's going on"..... I'll just sit back, have a nice laugh and try not to spit coffee all over my monitor.
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:34 PM   #57
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You people are a piece of work. Perhaps I have a conflict of interest in mentioning how to do this? Perhaps I have a moral conflict as well? How hypocritical to suggest fraud is wrong and then make or agree with a statement like this! If warranty fraud is wrong WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU BE OFFENDED BY MY LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO PARTICIPATE IN SHARING HOW YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH FRAUD?

I'm frankly not surprised. Just disgusted. The rationale capable of this nonsense is the same rationale that takes from my previous comments that I am completely one-sided and believe the consumer is always wrong and Ford is always right. You couldn't be more incorrect and you simply use your inability to accept responsibility for your own mistakes as a reason to suggest that I am "not on your side". Pathetic, really.

I have more experience in the automove service industry than many of you could possibly imagine and I share my thoughts/opinions/knowledge with this board ONLY to prevent people from getting into a situation in which they feel they've been ripped off or had their warranty unjustly denied. My experience has shown that many enthusiast owners ARE NOT FULLY COMPETENT in matters of warranty coverage when their car is modified. Because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT MEATHEADS LIKE YOU I choose to chime in on discussions like this.

I'm sorry for not allowing you to perpetually contaminate everyone with your ignorance and immaturity. From now on, instead of reading your posts and thinking "Hey, I might be able to help this guy understand what's going on"..... I'll just sit back, have a nice laugh and try not to spit coffee all over my monitor.
cool story bro
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:28 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by 1990lxhatch View Post
You people are a piece of work. Perhaps I have a conflict of interest in mentioning how to do this? Perhaps I have a moral conflict as well? How hypocritical to suggest fraud is wrong and then make or agree with a statement like this! If warranty fraud is wrong WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU BE OFFENDED BY MY LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO PARTICIPATE IN SHARING HOW YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH FRAUD?

I'm frankly not surprised. Just disgusted. The rationale capable of this nonsense is the same rationale that takes from my previous comments that I am completely one-sided and believe the consumer is always wrong and Ford is always right. You couldn't be more incorrect and you simply use your inability to accept responsibility for your own mistakes as a reason to suggest that I am "not on your side". Pathetic, really.

I have more experience in the automove service industry than many of you could possibly imagine and I share my thoughts/opinions/knowledge with this board ONLY to prevent people from getting into a situation in which they feel they've been ripped off or had their warranty unjustly denied. My experience has shown that many enthusiast owners ARE NOT FULLY COMPETENT in matters of warranty coverage when their car is modified. Because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT MEATHEADS LIKE YOU I choose to chime in on discussions like this.

I'm sorry for not allowing you to perpetually contaminate everyone with your ignorance and immaturity. From now on, instead of reading your posts and thinking "Hey, I might be able to help this guy understand what's going on"..... I'll just sit back, have a nice laugh and try not to spit coffee all over my monitor.
I will admit, like I said, my feelings about what you post are making me jump the gun and assume you are against consumer protection. I, and a few others, jumped to this conclusion because of your tone of voice.
Maybe we are wrong for jumping to the this conclusion, but considering what you post, what else are we to believe?
Your words are strong, and if there are more subtle messages in the post, it is hard to look past that to see what else you might be saying.

I and many others of us are more on the side of having consumer protection.
But I do agree that fraud not only hurts Ford, it also destroys the integrity of consumer protection and I agree that fraud should be discouraged.
You automatically assume we are all trying to fraud.
You call us meat heads because we took your posts wrong. But you too are just as guilty of being closed minded by thinking we all support fraud. You failed to see that I too do not agree with trying to fraud the shops for something a mod destroyed.

Just some advice: If you want to protect said meat heads, maybe you should change your argument some. Just a simple change in your tone of voice can help your side of the argument alot.

Also, considering the net and sites like these are intended to share info, it is best not to post something like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990lxhatch View Post
"There is only really one way to keep your PCM data virgin and I'm not going to share it."
Saying this only seems to undermine your own argument not to fraud. It tantalizes us into trying to find out what it is.

Saying you do know of such a way to further a fraud but initially refusing to say what it is only made us think that you were only trying to start a controversy.
For your argument, you simply should have left that part out.

Be straight forward, say you discourage fraud and try to work on getting people behind you, not taking you the wrong way.

I say this because I too am very out-spoken and need to work on this very same thing.
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:04 PM   #59
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Jim I have to applaud you for always having intelligent things to say and great information.

Props to you good sir.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:24 PM   #60
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I will admit, like I said, my feelings about what you post are making me jump the gun and assume you are against consumer protection. I, and a few others, jumped to this conclusion because of your tone of voice.
Maybe we are wrong for jumping to the this conclusion, but considering what you post, what else are we to believe?
Your words are strong, and if there are more subtle messages in the post, it is hard to look past that to see what else you might be saying.

I and many others of us are more on the side of having consumer protection.
But I do agree that fraud not only hurts Ford, it also destroys the integrity of consumer protection and I agree that fraud should be discouraged.
You automatically assume we are all trying to fraud.
You call us meat heads because we took your posts wrong. But you too are just as guilty of being closed minded by thinking we all support fraud. You failed to see that I too do not agree with trying to fraud the shops for something a mod destroyed.

Just some advice: If you want to protect said meat heads, maybe you should change your argument some. Just a simple change in your tone of voice can help your side of the argument alot.

Also, considering the net and sites like these are intended to share info, it is best not to post something like this:

Saying this only seems to undermine your own argument not to fraud. It tantalizes us into trying to find out what it is.

Saying you do know of such a way to further a fraud but initially refusing to say what it is only made us think that you were only trying to start a controversy.
For your argument, you simply should have left that part out.

Be straight forward, say you discourage fraud and try to work on getting people behind you, not taking you the wrong way.

I say this because I too am very out-spoken and need to work on this very same thing.

Look, this is all being blown out of proportion. My "taboo" statement was directly relevant to the post to which I replied. I couldn't with honesty say there was no way to do it [keep the PCM clean]. So, I chose the most direct way of mentioning that doing so was something I wouldn't help you with.

If my text comes off curt, it's because I've grown tired of mickey mouse internet accusations of "you implied this" or "you suggested that". It's childish. That's the thing with text though I guess - its not spoken word so the emotion is subjective... but my posts should be taken for face value because that's how I've treated other such complete statements. I never said "hey everyone here is trying to commit fraud?" I mentioned specific circumstances relevant to the discussion.

I'll apologize for getting rudely defensive. But when my "calm", direct statements are twisted into hyperbole the natural reaction is to use a little shift key
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:24 PM
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