Ford is getting tough on warranty for mod cars
11-30-2011, 10:24 AM
#51
I have intake tune exhaust and its lowered and they have no problem doing warranty work on my new 2011's transmission. Did i stiff arm a little when i walked in yes. did i let them push me around no. All about finding the right dealership. I was honest and up front. Walked in told em what i had done and asked if they would honor warranty. if you try to go around the system and defeat its purpose then you are wrong. And if all else fails a few cases of beer go a long way.
I totally agree here. I do the same thing. I tell the tech manager all my mods up front. If I hear any S*** about it, I simply walk out and take my business to the next dealership who is much more understanding.
At the mere sight of a CAI kit, I had techs tell me "your warranty is void" which is an absolute lie. I become extremely pissed with such morons and tell them otherwise.
Eventually, I do find the right dealership to work with, and they are the ones who earn my money. To the liars, I make it clear to those tech shops that they lost my business and money.
Bottom line to my point here to anyone just stumbling on this thread: Do not let the dealership techs lie to you and intimidate you. Know the laws and consumer protections.
But on your own part to maintain the integrity of consumer protection, for gawd sake, DO NOT FRAUD. If you F*** up your car by modding way beyond OEM part specs, face the facts and be responsible and pay for the repairs yourself.
11-30-2011, 10:30 AM
#52
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: OH
Posts: 317
Bottom line to my point here to anyone just stumbling on this thread: Do not let the dealership techs lie to you and intimidate you. Know the laws and consumer protections.
But on your own part to maintain the integrity of consumer protection, for gawd sake, DO NOT FRAUD. If you F*** up your car by modding way beyond OEM part specs, face the facts and be responsible and pay for the repairs yourself.
But on your own part to maintain the integrity of consumer protection, for gawd sake, DO NOT FRAUD. If you F*** up your car by modding way beyond OEM part specs, face the facts and be responsible and pay for the repairs yourself.
11-30-2011, 07:55 PM
#53
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: WA
Posts: 74
There is a bit more to it than that. Plus, the information about your vehicle is much more detailed when viewed with engineering software than it is at a dealership with the IDS scan tool. If Ford really wanted to know everything about your computer they could have the dealer ship it to Dearborn or they could just use WebEx to take control of your vehicle session and do it remotely.
There is only really one way to keep your PCM data virgin and I'm not going to share it. Plus, it still isn't perfect because anyone willing to do what must be done likely has other mods that aren't so easily disguised.
Consider this too..... if everyone knows (including the dealerships) that something as simple as a CAI will not work properly without a tune and you show up with a CAI and no visible tune.... what do you think they will conclude?
The more mickey mouse clandestine warranty fraud games you play, the more games the maker and dealers will play to force you into court.
Here's a good story:
I know of a case that went to arbitration of a guy with a 4.6 3v Mustang that had a broken connecting rod and gobs of collateral damage. Completely wasted longblock. No signs of modification other than a piece of casting on the RH cylinder head that was strangely ground down. Ford was aware that a certain supercharger kit required this exact grounding down of the head casting in order for the blower to be mounted correctly. Eventhough he had no visible modifications to the car, his claim was denied by the arbitrator because there was absolutely no reason for someone to take a grinder to a head in that manner other than do accomodate a specific supercharger kit.
There is only really one way to keep your PCM data virgin and I'm not going to share it. Plus, it still isn't perfect because anyone willing to do what must be done likely has other mods that aren't so easily disguised.
Consider this too..... if everyone knows (including the dealerships) that something as simple as a CAI will not work properly without a tune and you show up with a CAI and no visible tune.... what do you think they will conclude?
The more mickey mouse clandestine warranty fraud games you play, the more games the maker and dealers will play to force you into court.
Here's a good story:
I know of a case that went to arbitration of a guy with a 4.6 3v Mustang that had a broken connecting rod and gobs of collateral damage. Completely wasted longblock. No signs of modification other than a piece of casting on the RH cylinder head that was strangely ground down. Ford was aware that a certain supercharger kit required this exact grounding down of the head casting in order for the blower to be mounted correctly. Eventhough he had no visible modifications to the car, his claim was denied by the arbitrator because there was absolutely no reason for someone to take a grinder to a head in that manner other than do accomodate a specific supercharger kit.
With the above comment you have no business being on this forum. If you don't want to share just go away. You probably have no idea any way.
11-30-2011, 10:14 PM
#54
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: OH
Posts: 317
Some people just like starting controversy and needlessly pissing people off ... I suppose that's why the ignore feature exists in the first place.
12-02-2011, 07:56 AM
#55
Experience has taught me that the OP of that is a pita... he's on my ignore list so I don't have to read through his trolololing unless someone quotes him. This isn't the first time he's shown up in a thread spewing his "Ford is always right and the customer is always wrong" bs.
Some people just like starting controversy and needlessly pissing people off ... I suppose that's why the ignore feature exists in the first place.
Some people just like starting controversy and needlessly pissing people off ... I suppose that's why the ignore feature exists in the first place.
We all agree fraud only hurts everyone, not just Ford. But eliminating consumer protections does not fix the problem at all.
This is only my thought, but it seems like to me that he wants to eventually suggest to eliminate of consumer protection. He has not said it overtly, so I have no proof, but my feelings are unfortunately jumping the gun.
12-02-2011, 01:52 PM
#56
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location:
Posts: 153
I agree. I hope I am a reasonable person by seeing both sides of the coin, from the side of us, the consumers, and also on the side of Ford, who has seen their fair share of warranty fraud, but he is completely one sided in his arguments and has posted no regards for any sort of consumer protection at all.
We all agree fraud only hurts everyone, not just Ford. But eliminating consumer protections does not fix the problem at all.
This is only my thought, but it seems like to me that he wants to eventually suggest to eliminate of consumer protection. He has not said it overtly, so I have no proof, but my feelings are unfortunately jumping the gun.
We all agree fraud only hurts everyone, not just Ford. But eliminating consumer protections does not fix the problem at all.
This is only my thought, but it seems like to me that he wants to eventually suggest to eliminate of consumer protection. He has not said it overtly, so I have no proof, but my feelings are unfortunately jumping the gun.
Experience has taught me that the OP of that is a pita... he's on my ignore list so I don't have to read through his trolololing unless someone quotes him. This isn't the first time he's shown up in a thread spewing his "Ford is always right and the customer is always wrong" bs.
Some people just like starting controversy and needlessly pissing people off ... I suppose that's why the ignore feature exists in the first place.
Some people just like starting controversy and needlessly pissing people off ... I suppose that's why the ignore feature exists in the first place.
I'm frankly not surprised. Just disgusted. The rationale capable of this nonsense is the same rationale that takes from my previous comments that I am completely one-sided and believe the consumer is always wrong and Ford is always right. You couldn't be more incorrect and you simply use your inability to accept responsibility for your own mistakes as a reason to suggest that I am "not on your side". Pathetic, really.
I have more experience in the automove service industry than many of you could possibly imagine and I share my thoughts/opinions/knowledge with this board ONLY to prevent people from getting into a situation in which they feel they've been ripped off or had their warranty unjustly denied. My experience has shown that many enthusiast owners ARE NOT FULLY COMPETENT in matters of warranty coverage when their car is modified. Because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT MEATHEADS LIKE YOU I choose to chime in on discussions like this.
I'm sorry for not allowing you to perpetually contaminate everyone with your ignorance and immaturity. From now on, instead of reading your posts and thinking "Hey, I might be able to help this guy understand what's going on"..... I'll just sit back, have a nice laugh and try not to spit coffee all over my monitor.
12-02-2011, 02:34 PM
#57
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 786
You people are a piece of work. Perhaps I have a conflict of interest in mentioning how to do this? Perhaps I have a moral conflict as well? How hypocritical to suggest fraud is wrong and then make or agree with a statement like this! If warranty fraud is wrong WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU BE OFFENDED BY MY LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO PARTICIPATE IN SHARING HOW YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH FRAUD?
I'm frankly not surprised. Just disgusted. The rationale capable of this nonsense is the same rationale that takes from my previous comments that I am completely one-sided and believe the consumer is always wrong and Ford is always right. You couldn't be more incorrect and you simply use your inability to accept responsibility for your own mistakes as a reason to suggest that I am "not on your side". Pathetic, really.
I have more experience in the automove service industry than many of you could possibly imagine and I share my thoughts/opinions/knowledge with this board ONLY to prevent people from getting into a situation in which they feel they've been ripped off or had their warranty unjustly denied. My experience has shown that many enthusiast owners ARE NOT FULLY COMPETENT in matters of warranty coverage when their car is modified. Because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT MEATHEADS LIKE YOU I choose to chime in on discussions like this.
I'm sorry for not allowing you to perpetually contaminate everyone with your ignorance and immaturity. From now on, instead of reading your posts and thinking "Hey, I might be able to help this guy understand what's going on"..... I'll just sit back, have a nice laugh and try not to spit coffee all over my monitor.
I'm frankly not surprised. Just disgusted. The rationale capable of this nonsense is the same rationale that takes from my previous comments that I am completely one-sided and believe the consumer is always wrong and Ford is always right. You couldn't be more incorrect and you simply use your inability to accept responsibility for your own mistakes as a reason to suggest that I am "not on your side". Pathetic, really.
I have more experience in the automove service industry than many of you could possibly imagine and I share my thoughts/opinions/knowledge with this board ONLY to prevent people from getting into a situation in which they feel they've been ripped off or had their warranty unjustly denied. My experience has shown that many enthusiast owners ARE NOT FULLY COMPETENT in matters of warranty coverage when their car is modified. Because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT MEATHEADS LIKE YOU I choose to chime in on discussions like this.
I'm sorry for not allowing you to perpetually contaminate everyone with your ignorance and immaturity. From now on, instead of reading your posts and thinking "Hey, I might be able to help this guy understand what's going on"..... I'll just sit back, have a nice laugh and try not to spit coffee all over my monitor.
12-02-2011, 03:28 PM
#58
You people are a piece of work. Perhaps I have a conflict of interest in mentioning how to do this? Perhaps I have a moral conflict as well? How hypocritical to suggest fraud is wrong and then make or agree with a statement like this! If warranty fraud is wrong WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU BE OFFENDED BY MY LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO PARTICIPATE IN SHARING HOW YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH FRAUD?
I'm frankly not surprised. Just disgusted. The rationale capable of this nonsense is the same rationale that takes from my previous comments that I am completely one-sided and believe the consumer is always wrong and Ford is always right. You couldn't be more incorrect and you simply use your inability to accept responsibility for your own mistakes as a reason to suggest that I am "not on your side". Pathetic, really.
I have more experience in the automove service industry than many of you could possibly imagine and I share my thoughts/opinions/knowledge with this board ONLY to prevent people from getting into a situation in which they feel they've been ripped off or had their warranty unjustly denied. My experience has shown that many enthusiast owners ARE NOT FULLY COMPETENT in matters of warranty coverage when their car is modified. Because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT MEATHEADS LIKE YOU I choose to chime in on discussions like this.
I'm sorry for not allowing you to perpetually contaminate everyone with your ignorance and immaturity. From now on, instead of reading your posts and thinking "Hey, I might be able to help this guy understand what's going on"..... I'll just sit back, have a nice laugh and try not to spit coffee all over my monitor.
I'm frankly not surprised. Just disgusted. The rationale capable of this nonsense is the same rationale that takes from my previous comments that I am completely one-sided and believe the consumer is always wrong and Ford is always right. You couldn't be more incorrect and you simply use your inability to accept responsibility for your own mistakes as a reason to suggest that I am "not on your side". Pathetic, really.
I have more experience in the automove service industry than many of you could possibly imagine and I share my thoughts/opinions/knowledge with this board ONLY to prevent people from getting into a situation in which they feel they've been ripped off or had their warranty unjustly denied. My experience has shown that many enthusiast owners ARE NOT FULLY COMPETENT in matters of warranty coverage when their car is modified. Because I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT MEATHEADS LIKE YOU I choose to chime in on discussions like this.
I'm sorry for not allowing you to perpetually contaminate everyone with your ignorance and immaturity. From now on, instead of reading your posts and thinking "Hey, I might be able to help this guy understand what's going on"..... I'll just sit back, have a nice laugh and try not to spit coffee all over my monitor.
Maybe we are wrong for jumping to the this conclusion, but considering what you post, what else are we to believe?
Your words are strong, and if there are more subtle messages in the post, it is hard to look past that to see what else you might be saying.
I and many others of us are more on the side of having consumer protection.
But I do agree that fraud not only hurts Ford, it also destroys the integrity of consumer protection and I agree that fraud should be discouraged.
You automatically assume we are all trying to fraud.
You call us meat heads because we took your posts wrong. But you too are just as guilty of being closed minded by thinking we all support fraud. You failed to see that I too do not agree with trying to fraud the shops for something a mod destroyed.
Just some advice: If you want to protect said meat heads, maybe you should change your argument some. Just a simple change in your tone of voice can help your side of the argument alot.
Also, considering the net and sites like these are intended to share info, it is best not to post something like this:
Saying you do know of such a way to further a fraud but initially refusing to say what it is only made us think that you were only trying to start a controversy.
For your argument, you simply should have left that part out.
Be straight forward, say you discourage fraud and try to work on getting people behind you, not taking you the wrong way.
I say this because I too am very out-spoken and need to work on this very same thing.
Last edited by JIM5.0; 12-02-2011 at 03:38 PM.
12-02-2011, 05:24 PM
#60
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location:
Posts: 153
I will admit, like I said, my feelings about what you post are making me jump the gun and assume you are against consumer protection. I, and a few others, jumped to this conclusion because of your tone of voice.
Maybe we are wrong for jumping to the this conclusion, but considering what you post, what else are we to believe?
Your words are strong, and if there are more subtle messages in the post, it is hard to look past that to see what else you might be saying.
I and many others of us are more on the side of having consumer protection.
But I do agree that fraud not only hurts Ford, it also destroys the integrity of consumer protection and I agree that fraud should be discouraged.
You automatically assume we are all trying to fraud.
You call us meat heads because we took your posts wrong. But you too are just as guilty of being closed minded by thinking we all support fraud. You failed to see that I too do not agree with trying to fraud the shops for something a mod destroyed.
Just some advice: If you want to protect said meat heads, maybe you should change your argument some. Just a simple change in your tone of voice can help your side of the argument alot.
Also, considering the net and sites like these are intended to share info, it is best not to post something like this:
Saying this only seems to undermine your own argument not to fraud. It tantalizes us into trying to find out what it is.
Saying you do know of such a way to further a fraud but initially refusing to say what it is only made us think that you were only trying to start a controversy.
For your argument, you simply should have left that part out.
Be straight forward, say you discourage fraud and try to work on getting people behind you, not taking you the wrong way.
I say this because I too am very out-spoken and need to work on this very same thing.
Maybe we are wrong for jumping to the this conclusion, but considering what you post, what else are we to believe?
Your words are strong, and if there are more subtle messages in the post, it is hard to look past that to see what else you might be saying.
I and many others of us are more on the side of having consumer protection.
But I do agree that fraud not only hurts Ford, it also destroys the integrity of consumer protection and I agree that fraud should be discouraged.
You automatically assume we are all trying to fraud.
You call us meat heads because we took your posts wrong. But you too are just as guilty of being closed minded by thinking we all support fraud. You failed to see that I too do not agree with trying to fraud the shops for something a mod destroyed.
Just some advice: If you want to protect said meat heads, maybe you should change your argument some. Just a simple change in your tone of voice can help your side of the argument alot.
Also, considering the net and sites like these are intended to share info, it is best not to post something like this:
Saying this only seems to undermine your own argument not to fraud. It tantalizes us into trying to find out what it is.
Saying you do know of such a way to further a fraud but initially refusing to say what it is only made us think that you were only trying to start a controversy.
For your argument, you simply should have left that part out.
Be straight forward, say you discourage fraud and try to work on getting people behind you, not taking you the wrong way.
I say this because I too am very out-spoken and need to work on this very same thing.
Look, this is all being blown out of proportion. My "taboo" statement was directly relevant to the post to which I replied. I couldn't with honesty say there was no way to do it [keep the PCM clean]. So, I chose the most direct way of mentioning that doing so was something I wouldn't help you with.
If my text comes off curt, it's because I've grown tired of mickey mouse internet accusations of "you implied this" or "you suggested that". It's childish. That's the thing with text though I guess - its not spoken word so the emotion is subjective... but my posts should be taken for face value because that's how I've treated other such complete statements. I never said "hey everyone here is trying to commit fraud?" I mentioned specific circumstances relevant to the discussion.
I'll apologize for getting rudely defensive. But when my "calm", direct statements are twisted into hyperbole the natural reaction is to use a little shift key