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Clutch Delay Valve on 2013s?

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Old 12-29-2012, 04:22 PM   #1
Maverick302
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Question Clutch Delay Valve on 2013s?

Hi all,

I've recently took the plunge and traded up my 2011 GT/CS 6sd for a 2013 GT w/ 6sp that I ordered with everything I always wanted. I love the car, but have one annoying issue I'm trying to figure out.

The clutch engagement feels a little different than my GT/CS. The clutch in my GT/CS feels direct and normal which is the way I like it. However in the new GT, I can feel a difference in clutch engagement. It's more pronounced when I shift faster, typically when accelerating from a stop or turn. The clutch engagements changes from grabbing at the end of the pedal release to an abrupt grabbing point at the start of pedal release. As a result my clutch engagements during quick acceleration are not smooth.

I've had my car up on the lift, and didn't see any obvious valves on the clutch line. So I took it into Ford who could neither confirm or deny there is a delay valve and essentially said I don't know how to drive a manual transmission car.

Does anyone know if there is a delay valve on the 2013s? If there isn't one, anyone have recommendations on how to correct it? Bleed the clutch line?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:54 PM   #2
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Never heard of one. Don't know what application it would be useful for either. You might have gotten a sticky clutch/pedal assembly. Try taking it to a different dealer and explain the problem, and at the very least have them check if it was bled properly. Could just be air in the line like you said. Quick test, according to the ford shop manual, is put the transmission in 4th, then from a dead stop release the clutch normally. Should stall out without a fight. If it doesn't then there's a problem.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:33 AM   #3
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No offense but, you don't know much about MT. A clutch "delay valve" would just smear the clutch over time.

What you are probably experiencing is the fact the clutch is tight and new and probably needs some break-in time.

You could have the dealer re-bleed the clutch line and make sure there's no air trapped in it. That's about a 10 minute job on the lift.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clowe1965 View Post
Never heard of one. Don't know what application it would be useful for either. You might have gotten a sticky clutch/pedal assembly. Try taking it to a different dealer and explain the problem, and at the very least have them check if it was bled properly. Could just be air in the line like you said. Quick test, according to the ford shop manual, is put the transmission in 4th, then from a dead stop release the clutch normally. Should stall out without a fight. If it doesn't then there's a problem.
Thanks for the reply and feedback clowe. I'll give the FSM recommended test a try and see about having another dealer take a look. I guess the worst case scenario, I will just make an appointment to have my mechanic bleed the clutch line.

A lot of European cars have these CDV installed. From what I've read they were implemented to assist drivers with a smoother engagement while helping to preserve the transmission from clutch dumps. But to no surprise, everyone hates them and removes them.

Thanks again!
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P51C View Post
No offense but, you don't know much about MT. A clutch "delay valve" would just smear the clutch over time.
BMW has been using clutch delay valves for a while now.
http://www.diymybmw.com/e46/clutch-d...ve-cdv-delete/

A quick google search will yield a ton of articles on how to remove them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P51C View Post
What you are probably experiencing is the fact the clutch is tight and new and probably needs some break-in time.
The observations of a new clutch versus what I'm seeing are different. I'm feeling inconsistent clutch engagement only when shifting fast which would be different. I'm at 6k miles and the symptoms persist.

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Originally Posted by P51C View Post
You could have the dealer re-bleed the clutch line and make sure there's no air trapped in it. That's about a 10 minute job on the lift.
Sounds like this may be what I will end up having to do if I have no luck with at the dealer.

Thanks for the response/feedback P51C.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:43 PM   #6
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Could also be the hill assist feature coming into play. Holds the brakes for a couple of seconds before you start moving. Another thing is the fact that it is a hydraulic clutch. I have hated them since they came out. Sometimes the let out point feels like it is all over the place it seems to me. Been dealing with them for years and still hate them. You just do not get the same feel like you do with mechanical linkage IMHO. It is what it is though.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:28 AM   #7
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I have the same thing sometimes. The clutch is super picky. I notice if I don't pay attention to my clutch foot it will "bounce" when coming off the clutch. The last 2 inches of slack seem to be where the clutch grabs the most. I have just adapted to it. Haven't taken it in yet, think I should??
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:00 AM   #8
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Another thing we are all dealing with here is a 2 piece drive shaft with a carrier bearing. That will cause wierd problems as well. Why in the world Ford went with that I also have no idea. That will cause drive line slack and bounce like crazy. At least a couple more moving parts to bounce around when starting off from a dead stop or when we come around a corner and go into 2nd or 3rd gear. Clunk goes the driveshaft.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:16 AM   #9
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or the stock clutch line. It is hard plastic and can swell with hear/spiritited driving. Put in a new braided steel line and the thing shifts smooth as butter at the same point everytime now.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:34 PM   #10
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Happy New Years Everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapitts View Post
Could also be the hill assist feature coming into play. Holds the brakes for a couple of seconds before you start moving.
I actually thought of the hill assist possibly being part of the problem when I first noticed it. Though I ruled it out as the symptoms consistently have only been noticible while in motion shifting quickly.

I agree purely mechanical clutch linkages gave the best feel for engagement. My 83 Trans Am had a manual linkage and was quite a work out. hehe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowbra302 View Post
I have the same thing sometimes. The clutch is super picky. I notice if I don't pay attention to my clutch foot it will "bounce" when coming off the clutch. The last 2 inches of slack seem to be where the clutch grabs the most. I have just adapted to it. Haven't taken it in yet, think I should??
I wouldn't make it a priority but if it's consistent and bothers you (as much as mine does) never hurts to at least have a look at it during your next visit for service. Especially considering our cars are still under warranty. In my case, my 2011 GT/CS felt great compared to my 2013 GT.

Thanks for the responses!

Regards,
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapitts View Post
Another thing we are all dealing with here is a 2 piece drive shaft with a carrier bearing. That will cause wierd problems as well. Why in the world Ford went with that I also have no idea. That will cause drive line slack and bounce like crazy. At least a couple more moving parts to bounce around when starting off from a dead stop or when we come around a corner and go into 2nd or 3rd gear. Clunk goes the driveshaft.
One of my previous cars was a Mazda RX8 which had a single piece carbon fiber drive shaft (stock surprisingly!). Granted they don't have a LRA, having a single piece drive shaft definitely had a better feel for clutch engagement/disengagements. I miss that level of precision. I actually have a single piece drive shaft on order for my 2013.

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Old 01-01-2013, 06:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awbreyjd View Post
or the stock clutch line. It is hard plastic and can swell with hear/spiritited driving. Put in a new braided steel line and the thing shifts smooth as butter at the same point everytime now.
I'm going to end up doing that as well as a future mod. Past experience with going to SS lines were a necessity for upgraded clutches and pressure plates (e.g. unsprung 6 puck copper discs and heavy duty pressure plates). I was just surprised to notice this much difference between my old 2011 and the 2013.

My next schedule maintenance isn't for a while, but I'll have them bleed the clutch line and see how it goes from there.

Thanks for the feedback/response awbreyjd!

Regards,
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:30 PM   #13
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I'm glad you brought this up because I have the same exact clutch issue and suspecting the CDV. My other car has this same issue on stock clutch and removing the CDV solved the issue. But since this is my first Mustang I don't want to just bring it up here without looking around first before I get bashed and accused of not knowing how to drive stick.

I'm taking the car to a dealership tomorrow for an oil change so I will bring this up and hopefully they can come up with something.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncoolron View Post
I'm glad you brought this up because I have the same exact clutch issue and suspecting the CDV. My other car has this same issue on stock clutch and removing the CDV solved the issue. But since this is my first Mustang I don't want to just bring it up here without looking around first before I get bashed and accused of not knowing how to drive stick.

I'm taking the car to a dealership tomorrow for an oil change so I will bring this up and hopefully they can come up with something.
Let us know!!!
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clowe1965 View Post
Never heard of one. Don't know what application it would be useful for either. You might have gotten a sticky clutch/pedal assembly. Try taking it to a different dealer and explain the problem, and at the very least have them check if it was bled properly. Could just be air in the line like you said. Quick test, according to the ford shop manual, is put the transmission in 4th, then from a dead stop release the clutch normally. Should stall out without a fight. If it doesn't then there's a problem.
Sorry, if anyone has done the test, it says hold a 2,000 RPMs and then release the clutch slowly.

Also checked the manual, no mention of a CDV, just a master, slave, pedal, hose, and clutch.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncoolron View Post
I'm glad you brought this up because I have the same exact clutch issue and suspecting the CDV. My other car has this same issue on stock clutch and removing the CDV solved the issue. But since this is my first Mustang I don't want to just bring it up here without looking around first before I get bashed and accused of not knowing how to drive stick.
I took the bullet for getting bashed for you. Hehe. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the awkwardness with the clutch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncoolron View Post
I'm taking the car to a dealership tomorrow for an oil change so I will bring this up and hopefully they can come up with something.
I'm a little ways before my next oil change, but keep us posted!
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:14 PM   #17
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Ok, did my first oil change at 6PM ($53 ) but they could not check my clutch because their transmission tech is off by 5PM so I have to make another appointment for it to be check.

Thanks for taking the bullett.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:19 PM   #18
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Thumbs up **UPDATE** FIXED!!

Was browsing online and found a video from fellow MF member iceguyb14 that shows how to remove a "helper" spring on the clutch assembly.

The symptoms described are similar to what I've been seeing, and admittedly not knowing about the "helper" spring on the clutch assembly, it seem like this is the issue I'm seeing. So I decided to give it a shot this afternoon and pulled that spring out using the easy instructions.

Click the image to open in full size.

I drove it around this evening and the pedal worked as it should without sticking/delay. Though the pedal effort increases without the assistance of that helper spring, so I'll have to get used to the clutch again. But most importantly, I can call this one FIXED.

I'm pretty confident this is the issues that everyone else is seeing. The removal is pretty easy and doesn't cause any problems, so I would recommend giving it a try for those who are experiencing the same thing.

Anywho, since the symptoms are hard to describe and could be thought of as a "Clutch Delay Valve", I'm linking iceguyb14's thread on this one here for anyone who may do a search for this.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and responses!

Mustang Sticking Clutch Pedal Easy Fix Tutorial
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:34 AM   #19
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Yeah man. I saw that thread too but did not have chance to do it this weekend. Glad to know it works for you because it it is exactly as described on mine also.

Can't wait to give it a try.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:45 PM   #20
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Pulling the helper spring is definitely a good move for improved clutch pedal feel. For the record, there is no valve in the clutch line. The stock clutch line is plastic as stated earlier, and also has built in restrictions(slight) but the main negative is it's thermal sensitivity. Switching to a stainless braided line is also a very good upgrade if you drive spiritedly and get a lot of heat in the engine. The SS clutch line will remain consistent in all conditions. I wrote a how-to guide for the clutch line over on allfordmustangs if anyone is interested.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:45 PM
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