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5.0L V8 Technical Discussions Any questions about the 'Coyote' engine, transmission, exhaust, tuners/CAI, or gearing can be asked here!

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Old 01-05-2014, 06:14 PM   #1
Minion
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Default paxton vs roush

I know there is tons of info on this. I just can't find what I'm looking for. I keep going back and forth. I've been researching for a few weeks now. If anybody has real experience please chime in.
1. I'm in Maine is cold temps an issue on the SC? (It's rare but it was -14 the other night)
2. What one is quietest?
3. How does remote tuning work? Suppose I want "x" tuner to do it...is it done at my local dyno via the internet? If so...If a local Dyno also does tuning I would imagine they might get insulted if I wanted a tune from someone 100's of miles away...or am I missing something?
4. I haven't been pricing too much yet. But the roush looks to be about $1,500 more than paxton. The biggest selling point to me seems to be instant torque. I've never even been a super charged car. Both can get me to 600rwhp (my goal) should I not get hung up on torque? Also..i THINK the paxton is louder from what I've read.

About me...car is a daily driver. I like going fast from street light to street light. 0-60 is my thing. But (and it's happened plenty of times) if someone gets cute on the highway I have a hard time not taking them on and having some fun. I HAVE been to the drag strip but it's not my normal thing. I may end up going 4-5 times a year tops...maybe more if I have a blast with the new found power. I also plan to do ether install myself with friends. ....I think that covers it. Please...give me your thoughts. Too much money to say "I wish I got the..." oh..vortech is an option. I love the all black. But paxton is better for down the road. I may forge the motor way down the road.

I've ruled out turbo, pro charger, and the other power adders These 3 are the finalists.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:34 PM   #2
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I'd recommend going with one of the centrifugals. The roots will have more power down low, but do you really need more low end to shred the tires? The centri's really shine in the upper RPM's which is where you'll be when you're racing anyway.

The Paxton or Vortech will perform equally as well, so decide which kit you like best and go for it. I'd suggest looking over the installation manuals for both systems to see if there are modifications you'd like to stay away from in one kit vs. the other.
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:34 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by kirk35 View Post
The Paxton or Vortech will perform equally as well, so decide which kit you like best and go for it. I'd suggest looking over the installation manuals for both systems to see if there are modifications you'd like to stay away from in one kit vs. the other.
The Paxton/Vortech performing the same isn't 100% correct. Very similar, but the Paxton head unit is larger, which means of course you have more potential for power later down the road. Price of the kits are 100% the same, and no, having a larger head unit doesn't necessarily mean that it's a better unit, it just means it's bigger, literally.

At normal boost levels, the Si trim is more efficient because it's closer to it's peak efficiency, but once you go above 700rwhp it's basically all done, it doesn't have much more power to give.

So basically OP, this depends on your power goals!

To answer your questions - 1. Cold temps aren't bad for the car, but you'll want to spend some time on preventative maintenance to ensure nothing freezes overnight. Anti-freeze in the intercooler tends to help out from freezing and destroying the car (do this at your own risk), since water can freeze and cause issues.

2 - The Si Trim is known to be very very quiet, but you still get a little bit of noise here and there.

3 - Remote tuning is pretty easy. Take your OBD2 cable, plug it into a laptop and your car, and on the other end will be a tuner at another location, essentially using your wi-fi connection to your laptop, to program the car. Personally for me, I'd get the complete kit of whatever S/C you plan on buying, and use that tune FIRST, then once you upgrade later down the road, maybe get a dynotune, or get a remote tune. I like having a backup file just in case!

4 - Instant torque is great. I had a Kenne bell on my 03 GT a few years back, and yes, the power is awesome, but if you're a stickler on noise, I think that's a game over scenario there, twin screws are usually relatively loud, and high pitched (its not for everyone). Vortech and Paxton can be tuned to make more power than a twin screw, and they come with an intercooler to keep temps down. Twin screws have problems with heat, so heat soak will be a daily reminder of you not purchasing a centrifugal supercharger rather than a twin screw. 600RWHP is perfectly fine for both Vortech (which is what I would pick), and Paxton.

Even more so, if this is a daily driver, you'll want a centrifugal. The power is more linear than a twin screw which is instant. Instant torque sounds great, until you drive it on a rainy day (or in your situation a cold day), it'll just spin the tires all day long. Centrifugals have a bit more finesse to it so that you can actually drive it properly in those situations.

Contact me direct if you have any further questions!
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:34 AM   #4
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Great info...thanks for getting back to me. I will send a PM.

I do have a couple questions tho.
Ive still yet to hear anybody tell me (who has heard both) what is quieter. Vortech SI or a Roush. I understand they all will make noise. that is totally fine...I just don't want the thing howling everywhere I go. the one that is quietest will be a big factor.

you say "twin screw" I know Roush is a TVS. I'm not sure if that changes anything as far as heat soak or sound that you were talking about. but I just wanted to be sure. as far as that goes...maybe they share the same cherestics in that area?

Its funny that you mention the instant torque could be an issue on cold/rainy days. just this morning (6* outside) I got on it a little on my way to work. I could feel it losing traction. if its doing that now at 412HP. I KNOW it will be an issue at 600+ HP. I can obviously baby it. In other words...it seems like I have all the power I need down low in stock form. burning out in 1st and 2nd is not a problem. and I have new Nitto 555's (decent street tires)

if the I assume the vortech is not as loud as the paxton because the vortech has a special cut on the blades that keep it quiet? or are they both the same? I'm thinking down the road....I would rather go paxton. I guess my long term goal is 850HP with forged internals. right now on the stock block I'm looking for about 600RWHP. if the vortech can support 850hp that works. I like the fact that vortech ( I THINK) is quieter...and it comes in that black trim that I think looks awesome.

I was going to PM but I guess I went on a tangent.

Lastly, if the vortech is $1000-$1,500 less expensive than Roush that would be nice if I can talk myself into going in that direction.

Again, I worry about cold here in Maine and the sound. seems like both will be getting me to 600+ HP no problem.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:38 AM   #5
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I think the centrifugals will be louder with a whistle at idle, and the roots and twin screws with be louder and scream while accellerating hard

if you go centri, i would go with the paxton just for potential future beastmode activation after forging
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:34 AM   #6
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Again, I worry about cold here in Maine and the sound. seems like both will be getting me to 600+ HP no problem.
Minion,
The Phase 1 ROUSHcharger on the 5.0L produces little to no noise because of the closed air box. http://www.roushperformance.com/part...arger-Kit.html

The phase 2 & 3 ROUSHchargers or upgrade kits utilize an open air box creating a little bit more noise under hard acceleration. It is still not vary loud and is far quieter than the centrifugal.

As far as drivability... There is a reason the O.E.'s use positive displacement superchargers (i.e. GT500, ZL1, ZR1, CTSV...)

We develop, test and calibrate all of our supercharger systems to meet or exceed O.E. standards. The Roushchargers offered through the catalog and our dealers are the same units that we use on our production Stage 3 Mustangs.

Here is a good unbiased review of our Mustang to give you an idea of our systems.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:38 AM   #7
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I think the centrifugals will be louder with a whistle at idle, and the roots and twin screws with be louder and scream while accellerating hard

if you go centri, i would go with the paxton just for potential future beastmode activation after forging
Bingo. You're correct on everything here. Centrifugals typically are louder at idle, they do whistle a bit typically. Vortech's Si blowers though aren't bad at all, you wont notice if you pull up next to a car who has one installed, you can't tell.

The new TVS systems are very quiet, so I don't think there should be any deciding factor between the two based on noise, it really should be power potential, cost and reliability.

As far as heat soak is concerned, I'm not speaking directly about the exact Roush TVS kit, I'm just speaking in generalities from having a previously twin screwed Mustang, but IATs (intake air temperatures), are significantly higher on twin screw cars. Sure most of them you can get a liquid cooled system, but because it's mounted on top of the block it's a serious hot zone in that area, while centrifugal superchargers are mounted away from the motor which leads to less heat exchange which increases IATs.

Six degrees outside? Oh boy! Glad we're here in SoCal, yesterday it was 77F and sunny! But you see how even a bone stock car has issues? Well a twin screw will have similar issues, just amplified of course because of how instant the power is. Sounds excellent, but too much torque at once typically leads more to crashes than it does a fun time if you ask me (unless you're doing donuts I guess, hah). Yeah those NT555's will burn up pretty quick, that's for sure. You'll want to invest in some stickier tires eventually, but I'm sure you'll find that out once you've got all that power.

Vortech is not loud, not as loud as the Paxton head unit, that's for sure. The Paxton unit does whistle a bit more, correct, but most of this stuff you can't hear once you're in the car with the windows up, you can only really hear it when you're outside the car listening for it. I'm sure some Paxton guys on here will contest to that. Here's a quick drive inside a Paxton equipped car:


If you're long term goal is 850RWHP, then we should definitely go Paxton. Paxton units I've seen are good up to around 1000RWHP given you have the internals to match it. Vortech is honestly all out of it by 700RWHP, but you are correct, it is a bit more quiet.

I think talking yourself into the Vortech wont be very hard to do, it's a damn good system, VERY solid, and 50 state legal as well so you wont have any issues with smog certification.

No worries on the tangent! If you want me to break down pricing for you, then send me a PM on it, and I'll get you some good deals on what we can offer for you
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:41 AM   #8
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I will have to check the video out when I'm not at work.

I don't mind some sound when I punch it. I have the Roush axel backs and that will drown out just about anything

Can I still hit my 600RWHP goal with a closed airbox? or should I really get it that extra air? I know the upgraded airbox can be good for at least 30-40 HP

Thanks for the good info!
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:46 AM   #9
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decisions decisions!! and yeah, I only care how loud it is inside the car..... If I'm taking it easy down the highway at 200-2500 RPM...I don't want to hear something whining under the hood. if I get on it and it gets a little loud..I can deal with that. again, the roush axel backs drown out a lot.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:52 AM   #10
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I will have to check the video out when I'm not at work.

I don't mind some sound when I punch it. I have the Roush axel backs and that will drown out just about anything

Can I still hit my 600RWHP goal with a closed airbox? or should I really get it that extra air? I know the upgraded airbox can be good for at least 30-40 HP

Thanks for the good info!
With the right injectors and tune, 600rwhp is pretty standard for this set up. If anything you don't necessarily need to upgrade the blower, but you could always get long tube headers to help out in the power department, and swap out those droning Roush AB's with something that will make you not have a headache. I have the same issue with my AB system, so I feel you on that one.

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decisions decisions!! and yeah, I only care how loud it is inside the car..... If I'm taking it easy down the highway at 200-2500 RPM...I don't want to hear something whining under the hood. if I get on it and it gets a little loud..I can deal with that. again, the roush axel backs drown out a lot.
Yeah, then you're not going to have any issues with noise either one you pick.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:52 AM
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