Go Back   MustangForums.com > Ford Mustang Tech > 2005 - 2014 Mustangs > GT S197 General Discussion > 5.0L V8 Technical Discussions
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


5.0L V8 Technical Discussions Any questions about the 'Coyote' engine, transmission, exhaust, tuners/CAI, or gearing can be asked here!

Welcome to Mustang Forums!
Welcome to Mustang Forums.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!


Need transmission advice

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-17-2014, 12:06 PM   #1
jbchason
 
jbchason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Vehicle: 2011 Ford Mustang GT/CS
Location: Washington
Posts: 4
Default Need transmission advice

I bought my 2011 GT/CS a year ago, used with 15,000 miles on it. I had the typical clutch problems (engaging near the floor, failing to return to normal position when shifting at high rpms), clunky shifting, and I had the MT-82 transmission whine but it was tolerable.

I finally decided to try to remedy the situation by installing the Exedy Mach 500 Stage 3 Clutch (11-14 GT) and a Barton single bracket short throw shifter.

Now, the clutch feels great, the short throw shifter shifts much better. BUT, the transmission whines much louder and sounds terrible, my car pops out of 5th gear when I let off the gas, but stays in 5th gear when I stay on the gas, and I'm out $1500. I couldn't even sell this car right now, because the transmission sounds so bad that nobody with a brain would buy it.

Ford is telling me that because I upgraded to a performance clutch, they can't guarantee the diagnostic ($600) or repair work on my tranny will be covered under powertrain warranty. They have an easy out so I'm not going down that route. I also have no desire to have a POS MT-82 rebuilt by Ford or anybody else, only to have it whine again a few thousand miles down the line.

Is my only option to upgrade to the Tremec Magnum XL?
What is the true approximate cost of doing that upgrade (parts and labor)?
If I put that much money into this car, will I get any of it back when I sell it? Would you consider a 2011 GT/CS with a Tremec Magnum XL and upgraded flywheel more valuable than the same car with an MT-82 in it?
Or, do I cut my losses and just part ways with a car that I love in every other way, but which is not fun to drive right now due to drivetrain issues?
This ad is not displayed to registered or logged-in members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Mustang Forums!
jbchason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 02:06 PM   #2
om3n
 
om3n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Vehicle: 2011 Ford Mustang GT Premium
Location: MI
Posts: 37
Default

Not sure what to tell you, but I am also having the typical mt-82 whine. I brought my mustang to Ford just today and told me they also wouldn't work on my car with the mods I have.

I haven't modified the trans yet (came from Ford with 3.73 according to the prev owner) and I have no trans problems other than the normal whine, but I'm interested in learning what you decide to do.
om3n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 03:45 PM   #3
jbchason
 
jbchason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Vehicle: 2011 Ford Mustang GT/CS
Location: Washington
Posts: 4
Default

Dealers will always look for an out to a warranty. I was told to try to find a "mod-friendly" Ford dealer, but they tend to have a list of acceptable mods (i.e. a cold air intake is quite different than a supercharger).

The fact that Ford doesn't acknowledge this as a major issue and send us each money to put in a Tremec Magnum XL is just disgusting. These MT-82 issues truly affect the drivability and take away from the fun of owning a Mustang.

I'm done with Ford on this one. And, I'm not going to take it back to the guys who installed the clutch and shifter, because they gave me back a car with 2 problems that didn't even exist before I gave it to them. Nobody is taking responsibility and everyone thinks I should just bite the bullet and spend another $5000.

My next step will be to find an honest Transmission specialist and have him see if he can resolve any of the issues for me. I'm starting to wonder if the new clutch or the new fluid they used (redline) made the whine worse. And, I still have no idea where the popping out of 5th gear came from. If both issues can't be fixed for a reasonable amount of money, I'll probably just sell the car and never buy a Ford again.
jbchason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 03:48 PM   #4
jbchason
 
jbchason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Vehicle: 2011 Ford Mustang GT/CS
Location: Washington
Posts: 4
Default

Also, Ford put out a memo on the 2011+ Mustangs, telling owners that the cars are tuned for peak performance and that any modifications could void the warranty. So, they clearly saw this coming and covered their behinds.

How ridiculous is that, with the tremendous aftermarket that exists for Mustangs?
jbchason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 06:56 PM   #5
JIM5.0
5th Gear Member
 
JIM5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Vehicle: 2011 GT 5.0 Coyote
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,404
None, Facebook is the Devil! None, Twitter is for Twits! None, I hate it when my boss snoops the net about me
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbchason View Post
Also, Ford put out a memo on the 2011+ Mustangs, telling owners that the cars are tuned for peak performance and that any modifications could void the warranty. So, they clearly saw this coming and covered their behinds.

How ridiculous is that, with the tremendous aftermarket that exists for Mustangs?
FoMoCo's TSB on engine mods affecting the powertrain warranty is excessive; I agree. FoMoCo made that TSB too broad with little or no protection from the unscrupulous dealerships from making frivolous warranty denials.
The instructions that TSB had was to remove the PCM and send it to FoMoCo to read how many times it was flashed and whatever possible modding data they could glean from the PCM; nothing short of a "Big Brother" in your car.

However, the aftermarket industry say this as a possible attack on their products since the TSB could be interpreted to also cause warranty denials on just a tune being uploaded into the PCM.
As a result and reassurance of their products' quality and guaranty, Tuners like BAMA now offer a #8 cylinder warranty with their tunes. The #8 cylinder is suspected to be the number one part to fail on engine failures from mods and tunes.

Now, I agree that dealerships should be allowed to deny warranty work if a mod legitimately destroys something, but dealerships should also be held accountable for denying warranty work over frivolous issues (example: you buy aftermarket shocks and install them. The transmission goes out, but the engine, transmission, and the rest of the drivetrain are still completely stock. The dealership should be prohibited from denying warranty work on the transmission). There are many such horror stories; I have no idea which ones are true and which ones are completely blown out of proportion. But for these stories to leak out, they must have occurred at one time or another
__________________

Squirrel of Death!
Do not **** off the SoD!!!!
JIM5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 07:19 PM   #6
JIM5.0
5th Gear Member
 
JIM5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Vehicle: 2011 GT 5.0 Coyote
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,404
None, Facebook is the Devil! None, Twitter is for Twits! None, I hate it when my boss snoops the net about me
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbchason View Post
Dealers will always look for an out to a warranty. I was told to try to find a "mod-friendly" Ford dealer, but they tend to have a list of acceptable mods (i.e. a cold air intake is quite different than a supercharger).

The fact that Ford doesn't acknowledge this as a major issue and send us each money to put in a Tremec Magnum XL is just disgusting. These MT-82 issues truly affect the drivability and take away from the fun of owning a Mustang.

I'm done with Ford on this one. And, I'm not going to take it back to the guys who installed the clutch and shifter, because they gave me back a car with 2 problems that didn't even exist before I gave it to them. Nobody is taking responsibility and everyone thinks I should just bite the bullet and spend another $5000.

My next step will be to find an honest Transmission specialist and have him see if he can resolve any of the issues for me. I'm starting to wonder if the new clutch or the new fluid they used (redline) made the whine worse. And, I still have no idea where the popping out of 5th gear came from. If both issues can't be fixed for a reasonable amount of money, I'll probably just sell the car and never buy a Ford again.
I'm not a big fan of he MT-82 Getrag myself due to a couple of highlights, but I do like that it has a very deep 1st gear, 3.66:1, and the MT-82 coupled to 3.31:1 rears is equivalent to a T56 2.95:1 1st coupled to a 4.10:1 rear.
Aside from the gear whine and the clunkiness, both of which I have learned to live with, my remaining criticisms are:

1) The gear ratios could be better spread apart so that shifting from 1st to 2nd isn't such a drastic change, and possibly the same from 2nd to 3rd.

2) The shifter and linkages are not up to what they should be. They are okay for daily driving, but harnessing the full 412BHP is not what the shifter is meant to do.

3) Compounding the shifter problem, the bushings on the transmission are too damn soft. Very typical of Ford to place way too much emphasis on NVH for daily driving at a significant sacrifice to putting components that can harness 412BHP.
The bushings are so weak that the aftermarket has stepped up to help address engine to transmission alignment under WOT by creating inserts to go into the bushings.
By correcting the transmission alignment, hopefully that can eliminate being kicked out of 5th gear.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/whitel...ntV1&year=2013
http://www.dfw50s.com/showthread.php?t=2545
__________________

Squirrel of Death!
Do not **** off the SoD!!!!

Last edited by JIM5.0; 06-23-2014 at 07:22 PM.
JIM5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 08:24 PM   #7
jz78817
3rd Gear Member
 
jz78817's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Vehicle: 2012 Ford Mustang GT
Location: Michigan
Posts: 859
Default

Quote:
The fact that Ford doesn't acknowledge this as a major issue and send us each money to put in a Tremec Magnum XL is just disgusting. These MT-82 issues truly affect the drivability and take away from the fun of owning a Mustang.
why don't you ask them for three dicks and the Rockettes for free while you're at it? Ford warranties the car as it's offered for sale. if you modify/tune it to up the power from the engine, anything you break as a result of those modifications is your problem. And now you want Ford to give you money for an aftermarket transmission to sustain your modifications? No automaker on the planet earth would do that and you're being totally unreasonable for expecting them to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JIM5.0
However, the aftermarket industry say this as a possible attack on their products since the TSB could be interpreted to also cause warranty denials on just a tune being uploaded into the PCM.
If the tune can be proven to have led to engine damage, then the warranty claim should be denied. Like I said above, Ford (and every other automaker) warranties their cars in as-built condition. If you modify the car, and your mods cause something to fail, the warranty on the part that failed is void. And don't bring up Magnuson-Moss, it doesn't mean what you think it does.

Last edited by jz78817; 06-23-2014 at 08:31 PM.
jz78817 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 08:45 PM   #8
JIM5.0
5th Gear Member
 
JIM5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Vehicle: 2011 GT 5.0 Coyote
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,404
None, Facebook is the Devil! None, Twitter is for Twits! None, I hate it when my boss snoops the net about me
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jz78817 View Post

If the tune can be proven to have led to engine damage, then the warranty claim should be denied. Like I said above, Ford (and every other automaker) warranties their cars in as-built condition. If you modify the car, and your mods cause something to fail, the warranty on the part that failed is void. And don't bring up Magnuson-Moss, it doesn't mean what you think it does.
Why should I not bring up the Magnuson-Moss act? It says exactly what you just said: if the mod causes the car to break, then yes, the warranty work should be denied.
But the other side and why the Magnuson-Moss exists is to protect the consumer against warranty denial for mods that DO NOT break the car.

Bottom line is I agree with you; I quote myself:
"Now, I agree that dealerships should be allowed to deny warranty work if a mod legitimately destroys something..."
__________________

Squirrel of Death!
Do not **** off the SoD!!!!
JIM5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 08:59 PM   #9
jz78817
3rd Gear Member
 
jz78817's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Vehicle: 2012 Ford Mustang GT
Location: Michigan
Posts: 859
Default

the OP said his dealer wouldn't guarantee the work would be under warranty because of his mods, they haven't denied a warranty claim (in fact, I don't believe dealers can deny warranty work, only Ford can.)

besides, the OP was stupid for putting in an aftermarket clutch and short throw before taking the car in for service. Most of us know the MT82 had problems in MY11.
jz78817 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 08:19 PM   #10
PeteInFlorida
1st Gear Member
 
PeteInFlorida's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Vehicle: 2014, Ford, Mustang GT
Location: Florida
Posts: 81
Default

Yeah Ford couldn't repair my issue either, although it was poorly manufactured body panels. I know this is the last Ford I will own. I had to order an aftermarket part and pay for it out of my pocket. Buyer's remorse? Heck yes! Next car will be another Toyota.
PeteInFlorida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 11:35 AM   #11
AKRA
1st Gear Member
 
AKRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Vehicle: 2012, Ford, Mustang GT
Location: Michigan
Posts: 105
Default

A couple years ago I upgraded to a Hurst short through shifter. It now has a slight wining sound. The wining might be coming from your new shifter. In my case the little bit of extra wine I now have is worth it because of the the improvement in the shifting.
__________________
2012 Mustang GT:
Grabber Blue, Black stripes, Glass Top, Chrome AMR Wheels, MT82 Transmission, Roush Stage 3 Supercharger, 3.73 gears, 42 lb Injectors, Hurst shifter and Bassani Exhaust.
AKRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 02:01 PM   #12
bstang14
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Vehicle: 2014
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKRA View Post
A couple years ago I upgraded to a Hurst short through shifter. It now has a slight wining sound. The wining might be coming from your new shifter. In my case the little bit of extra wine I now have is worth it because of the the improvement in the shifting.
Not sure what the Hurst shifter actually replaces component wise but I doubt it "caused" the whine. Replacing the upper part of the shifter and replacing the sound mat should not affect NVH. Lower box and/or rear mount replacement could certainly allow more noise or whine into the cabin. Gears wear over time. Bearings wear over time. Fluids thin over time. All could increase whine. I agree with you that a bit more noise for a lot better shifting is a good trade. I'm going to be installing my MGW soon. Hoping for a more solid feel. Ill trade for a bit more NVH.
bstang14 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 08:25 PM   #13
basshed
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Vehicle: 2014 Ford Mustang
Location: Indiana
Posts: 20
Default

Answering the original poster on Magnum XL upgrade costs: I'm working thru that mod for my 3.7l now. A fully complete kit runs around $6k with shipping. Then there's the shop supplies needed to get the transmission in the car which will be another couple hundred. I'm estimating once the weather warms up it'll take an afternoons work to pull the MT82 out and put the tremec in. That being because I've pulled mine several times now sorting out the weak clutch slave issue and it's 2nd nature. I've done several different clutches and slaves & found a ideal setup for street but it utterly falls on its face at the track where I spend a lot of my time during the summer. The benefit is worth the nearly $8k I'll have into it. That being said - the MT82 in my car just won't die - it's ragged but shifts fine when warm & the clutch is a bit glaze... but it still runs well enough for street use & holds power well up into the rpm range. Don't give up on that trans yet - get the trans isolator, stainless steel line & upgrade to the heavy exedy slave. If you can find a motorbike brake reservoir - split the clutch off the brake system & cap the unused port. That did wonders for light clutch effort during race runs not having brake heat abusing the clutch slave. Well worth the trans pull to do this yourself, just be aware first timers will take a day just to get it out without tearing anything up. It's not hard - just tedious figuring out how to get the upper four bell housing bolts out. Worse on the v8's because they're up against the fire wall and the v6 has about an extra half inch to get a hand and wrench down there. I have about 2 dozen drag passes on the car and 40-50 autocross runs - plus 28k in daily driving.
basshed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 08:28 PM   #14
justinlevans
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Vehicle: 1971 ford mustang
Location: missouri
Posts: 2
Default

im new to all this and i cant figure out how to post my own post so im sorry but i am jumping in on this one for my rant. i have a 71 mustang with a 351c 2v with a weiland xcelerator intake holley 650 headers. i had to replace the timing chain and gears reasontly because the stretch was getting obvious (backfiing ect) so i installed an oe timing chain and gears correctly aligned. went to fire it up it barely starts.runs rough(backfires) timing light says 10* btdc moved the distributor around with no better results.ive replaced distributor wires plugs even valve springs in worry that i had floating valves.distributor is in correctly pointing toward #1 plug and true tdc was found countless times.rocker arms were torqued to specs along with everything else.im at a loss so anyone/ everyone please comment
justinlevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 08:45 PM   #15
om3n
 
om3n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Vehicle: 2011 Ford Mustang GT Premium
Location: MI
Posts: 37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKRA View Post
A couple years ago I upgraded to a Hurst short through shifter. It now has a slight wining sound. The wining might be coming from your new shifter. In my case the little bit of extra wine I now have is worth it because of the the improvement in the shifting.
Does it whine from 1-4, not in 5th, maybe 6th? It's not your shifter, it's probably the input shaft/bearing. It's a super common problem with the MT-82, if I were you I'd get it looked at by a decent dealer before the warranty expires.


EDIT: I also have an MGW shifter.
om3n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 04:24 PM   #16
Slowbra302
2nd Gear Member
 
Slowbra302's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Vehicle: 2013 Ford Mustang GT Premium
Location: California
Posts: 387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by om3n View Post
Does it whine from 1-4, not in 5th, maybe 6th? It's not your shifter, it's probably the input shaft/bearing. It's a super common problem with the MT-82, if I were you I'd get it looked at by a decent dealer before the warranty expires.


EDIT: I also have an MGW shifter.
Thinking of taking mine in myself. I have to really force reverse and first gear is stiff and so is second. Currently I have the whiteline trans bushing, steeds tri-ax and the red bushing.

Should I take all this of before I go in? I haven't taken anything off other than tune when getting the car looked at, so far 2 warranty repairs and no issues.
Slowbra302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 06:56 PM   #17
bstang14
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Vehicle: 2014
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowbra302 View Post

Thinking of taking mine in myself. I have to really force reverse and first gear is stiff and so is second. Currently I have the whiteline trans bushing, steeds tri-ax and the red bushing.

Should I take all this of before I go in? I haven't taken anything off other than tune when getting the car looked at, so far 2 warranty repairs and no issues.
IMO, yes you should take it off. How could a dealer diagnose a shifting problem with aftermarket shifter and bushings?
__________________
2014 GT Convertible
bstang14 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 06:23 AM   #18
Slowbra302
2nd Gear Member
 
Slowbra302's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Vehicle: 2013 Ford Mustang GT Premium
Location: California
Posts: 387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstang14 View Post
IMO, yes you should take it off. How could a dealer diagnose a shifting problem with aftermarket shifter and bushings?
Cool beans, I figured as much. Guess I'll do it some time this spring
Slowbra302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 07:04 AM   #19
AKRA
1st Gear Member
 
AKRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Vehicle: 2012, Ford, Mustang GT
Location: Michigan
Posts: 105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by om3n View Post
Does it whine from 1-4, not in 5th, maybe 6th? It's not your shifter, it's probably the input shaft/bearing. It's a super common problem with the MT-82, if I were you I'd get it looked at by a decent dealer before the warranty expires.


EDIT: I also have an MGW shifter.
I think aftermarket shifter mount catches harmonic vibrations from the transmission. The stock shifter hides them a little better.
__________________
2012 Mustang GT:
Grabber Blue, Black stripes, Glass Top, Chrome AMR Wheels, MT82 Transmission, Roush Stage 3 Supercharger, 3.73 gears, 42 lb Injectors, Hurst shifter and Bassani Exhaust.
AKRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 05:24 PM   #20
jbchason
 
jbchason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Vehicle: 2011 Ford Mustang GT/CS
Location: Washington
Posts: 4
Default Update from original poster

First of all, thank you to all of you who offered your own theories and advice. It was definitely helpful for me to know what directions to pursue. Also, thanks to those who left more colorful comments, because I can always use a good laugh. For the benefit of all, including those who might experience similar issues, I'd like to provide an update.

The reason the car was popping out of 5th gear is because the shop that installed my clutch didn't put the transmission back in properly and is wasn't 100% straight. A well regarded (other) local Mustang specialty shop noticed this, because the pressure plate was missing a few bolts, and when they went to put them in, they noticed the holes didn't line up. Trusting them more than the previous shop, I asked them to reposition the transmission so that it was lined up properly. Lo and behold, the 5th gear issue was gone. Turns out that the way the components line up for 5th gear is more sensitive than other gears, which is why that was the only one affected by the misalignment. And yes, the previous shop did end up paying for that repair once they realized their mistake.

However, the transmission whine remained, even after replacing the Redline fluid with Ford's recommended transmission fluid. A few of you commented that it might be the short throw shifter and I'll give you this. If your transmission is making ANY noise, a short throw shifter with a bracket will transmit that noise more than the rubbery, squishy stock shifter. However, this whine was there before the shifter was installed and it got substantially worse with time. I was fortunate enough to find a local Ford dealer who acknowledged just how loud it was, and how an aftermarket clutch and shifter don't void the powertrain warranty. They went ahead and removed the transmission to find metal shavings at the bottom and a few components prematurely worn/damaged. So, they replaced the entire transmission and now there is no whine. The car shifts beautifully. All you can hear now is the music from those GT500 mufflers, and I'm enjoying driving it for the first time in 6 months.

Thank you all for your input and guidance! I really appreciate it.
jbchason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 05:24 PM
MustangForums
Ford Mustang




Paid Advertisement

 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
New Sponsors
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:25 PM.

© Internet Brands, Inc.


This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company
Emails Backup