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GTC 06-19-2014 12:24 AM

Help With Additional Cooling on New GT
 
1 Attachment(s)
Bought a 2014 GT Premium (white) today, Woody Anderson Ford Huntsville. It's just hitting the low 90's in North Alabama and are sure to go up in July/August.

So as part of the purchase I ordered the oil cooler immediately from Motorcraft. $278 in parts I think. Arrival and installation probably Monday Tuesday.

Can someone advise how much the oil cooler by itself will drop the oil temperature; and, whether you recommend the full super cooling system (higher capacity radiator and oil cooler) for around $1,100 in parts?

I've been pleased with the super cooling on our agencies Crown Vic patrol cars, and have had one problem with an Expedition getting a little too hot after a couple of hours idling which was solved raising the hood. Of course I'll not idle my personal car like we do patrol vehicles.

Oh yes, interestingly, coming from a '13 V6 Premium - while GT gas mileage was much lower on the highway at high speeds, around town about the same mileage surprisingly.

GTC 06-19-2014 07:21 PM

Well in the reading I've done since this post, people who have this accessory say in their review that the cooler lowers oil temperature approximately 30 degrees.

jz78817 06-19-2014 07:33 PM

why do you think you need this? Ford has proving grounds in Arizona where they test cars in the middle of summer. 90 degrees is nothing.

Quote:

Can someone advise how much the oil cooler by itself will drop the oil temperature; and, whether you recommend the full super cooling system (higher capacity radiator and oil cooler) for around $1,100 in parts?
I don't recommend it at all, but since you already seem to have made up your mind, go ahead and blow $1,100; it's your money. Ford seems to be able to build 6 million cars and trucks every year but apparently can't figure out how to cool them properly.

steel pony 06-19-2014 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTC (Post 8399942)
Bought a 2014 GT Premium (white) today, Woody Anderson Ford Huntsville. It's just hitting the low 90's in North Alabama and are sure to go up in July/August.

So as part of the purchase I ordered the oil cooler immediately from Motorcraft. $278 in parts I think. Arrival and installation probably Monday Tuesday.

Of course I'll not idle my personal car like we do patrol vehicles.

Then why are you concerned about oil temps??
It hit 100+ here in Raleigh this week...drive my car every day w/no issues
It's not a necessary upgrade if you're driving the car normally or a little "spirited"
I have to ask what you bought for $278 when the FRPP oil cooler off the BOSS 302 sell for $130 or so??

Unless you're going to be doing some serious track time, the oil cooler is overkill...rather spend the $$$ on the freeze plug upgrade to help cool #8 cylinder.

GTC 06-19-2014 11:04 PM

You guys are misinformed a little bit.

Concern with oil temps is not because Ford doesn't effectively cool their vehicles, they do. I run an oil cooler for the slightly lower operating temperatures which provides numerous benefits; and, by the way, as original equipment Ford has external oil coolers on all redesigned GT 2015 Mustangs.

Many people do not recognize that oil is your second cooling system. And oil has two purposes, first lubrication, then cooling is the secondary purpose of oil. And it’s a very important part of its job. Often, the crankshaft, bearings, camshaft, lifters, connecting rods and pistons are only cooled by engine oil. Oil that exceeds 220F rapidly loses its ability to lubricate and cool causing accerlerated fatigue and premature component failure. All of this can happen without your engine showing any signs of over heating on that hot June day in Raleigh.

Conversely, maintaining the proper oil temperature can prolong engine life. Very generally speaking, oil, depending on the vehicle, does around 30% off the cooling in an engine. So to say an oil cooler is overkill because your car didn't overheat in Richmond in August is a very limiting view that doesn't really understand the purpose of oil coolers, and more of a statement about your radiator cooling system anyway.

And, it may be worth mentioning, you can even run oil too cool as oil must be brought to an optimal operating temperature so it may "burn off" moisture (water) in the crankcase (water in the oil can combine with combustion byproducts that happen to blow by the rings and form acids in the oil, which breaks down the oil and can corrode or form rust on anything in the crankcase). Anyway, oil gets moisture in it and that moisture continually builds up unless the oil temperature reaches at least 212 degrees to boil the water out of the oil. One of the great things about this particular Ford oil cooler is you don't have to worry about too cool as this oil cooler is liquid to liquid (it taps into the radiator). With this design, when needed on cold days, the coolant can also help to warm the oil as well. Typically, these types fit in your upper radiator hose and use coolant from the radiator to cool the oil. Cadillac is another car company who has plumbed into the radiator for OE oil coolers.

Regarding the other comment, I did not order the $1,100 set up. I ordered the one that is $278 in parts. To answer the Boss question, right the oil cooler for the GT was very inexpensive, like $78 (part #6A642), but you're not done there, you need other parts for installation such as the hoses that tap in to the radiator and so forth.

I close with a piece of history: People used to marvel at the old Porsches that were "air cooled." Reality is that those motors ran upwards of 12 quarts of oil, some even as much as 16 quarts, with very large oil coolers. Those motors should have been called oil-cooled motors instead of air-cooled. While technology has changed dramatically, it's still a decent illustration to show how important an oil cooler can be to cooling a car even though the primary cooling system now is coolant.

Slowbra302 06-20-2014 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTC (Post 8400262)
You guys are misinformed a little bit.

Concern with oil temps is not because Ford doesn't effectively cool their vehicles, they do. I run an oil cooler for the slightly lower operating temperatures which provides numerous benefits; and, by the way, as original equipment Ford has external oil coolers on all redesigned GT 2015 Mustangs.

Many people do not recognize that oil is your second cooling system. And oil has two purposes, first lubrication, then cooling is the secondary purpose of oil. And its a very important part of its job. Often, the crankshaft, bearings, camshaft, lifters, connecting rods and pistons are only cooled by engine oil. Oil that exceeds 220F rapidly loses its ability to lubricate and cool causing accerlerated fatigue and premature component failure. All of this can happen without your engine showing any signs of over heating on that hot June day in Raleigh.

Conversely, maintaining the proper oil temperature can prolong engine life. Very generally speaking, oil, depending on the vehicle, does around 30% off the cooling in an engine. So to say an oil cooler is overkill because your car didn't overheat in Richmond in August is a very limiting view that doesn't really understand the purpose of oil coolers, and more of a statement about your radiator cooling system anyway.

And, it may be worth mentioning, you can even run oil too cool as oil must be brought to an optimal operating temperature so it may "burn off" moisture (water) in the crankcase (water in the oil can combine with combustion byproducts that happen to blow by the rings and form acids in the oil, which breaks down the oil and can corrode or form rust on anything in the crankcase). Anyway, oil gets moisture in it and that moisture continually builds up unless the oil temperature reaches at least 212 degrees to boil the water out of the oil. One of the great things about this particular Ford oil cooler is you don't have to worry about too cool as this oil cooler is liquid to liquid (it taps into the radiator). With this design, when needed on cold days, the coolant can also help to warm the oil as well. Typically, these types fit in your upper radiator hose and use coolant from the radiator to cool the oil. Cadillac is another car company who has plumbed into the radiator for OE oil coolers.

Regarding the other comment, I did not order the $1,100 set up. I ordered the one that is $278 in parts. To answer the Boss question, right the oil cooler for the GT was very inexpensive, like $78 (part #6A642), but you're not done there, you need other parts for installation such as the hoses that tap in to the radiator and so forth.

I close with a piece of history: People used to marvel at the old Porsches that were "air cooled." Reality is that those motors ran upwards of 12 quarts of oil, some even as much as 16 quarts, with very large oil coolers. Those motors should have been called oil-cooled motors instead of air-cooled. While technology has changed dramatically, it's still a decent illustration to show how important an oil cooler can be to cooling a car even though the primary cooling system now is coolant.

That was a great read :)

steel pony 06-20-2014 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTC (Post 8400262)
You guys are misinformed a little bit.

Concern with oil temps is not because Ford doesn't effectively cool their vehicles, they do. I run an oil cooler for the slightly lower operating temperatures which provides numerous benefits; and, by the way, as original equipment Ford has external oil coolers on all redesigned GT 2015 Mustangs.

Many people do not recognize that oil is your second cooling system. And oil has two purposes, first lubrication, then cooling is the secondary purpose of oil. And its a very important part of its job. Often, the crankshaft, bearings, camshaft, lifters, connecting rods and pistons are only cooled by engine oil. Oil that exceeds 220F rapidly loses its ability to lubricate and cool causing accerlerated fatigue and premature component failure. All of this can happen without your engine showing any signs of over heating on that hot June day in Raleigh.

Conversely, maintaining the proper oil temperature can prolong engine life. Very generally speaking, oil, depending on the vehicle, does around 30% off the cooling in an engine. So to say an oil cooler is overkill because your car didn't overheat in Richmond in August is a very limiting view that doesn't really understand the purpose of oil coolers, and more of a statement about your radiator cooling system anyway.

And, it may be worth mentioning, you can even run oil too cool as oil must be brought to an optimal operating temperature so it may "burn off" moisture (water) in the crankcase (water in the oil can combine with combustion byproducts that happen to blow by the rings and form acids in the oil, which breaks down the oil and can corrode or form rust on anything in the crankcase). Anyway, oil gets moisture in it and that moisture continually builds up unless the oil temperature reaches at least 212 degrees to boil the water out of the oil. One of the great things about this particular Ford oil cooler is you don't have to worry about too cool as this oil cooler is liquid to liquid (it taps into the radiator). With this design, when needed on cold days, the coolant can also help to warm the oil as well. Typically, these types fit in your upper radiator hose and use coolant from the radiator to cool the oil. Cadillac is another car company who has plumbed into the radiator for OE oil coolers.

Regarding the other comment, I did not order the $1,100 set up. I ordered the one that is $278 in parts. To answer the Boss question, right the oil cooler for the GT was very inexpensive, like $78 (part #6A642), but you're not done there, you need other parts for installation such as the hoses that tap in to the radiator and so forth.

I close with a piece of history: People used to marvel at the old Porsches that were "air cooled." Reality is that those motors ran upwards of 12 quarts of oil, some even as much as 16 quarts, with very large oil coolers. Those motors should have been called oil-cooled motors instead of air-cooled. While technology has changed dramatically, it's still a decent illustration to show how important an oil cooler can be to cooling a car even though the primary cooling system now is coolant.

GTC, I appreciate your insight and the debate as well. I wouldn't necessarily say we are slightly misinformed (well maybe a little at times), it's more of a sense of what's really practical vs. necessary vs. improvement.
I had considered the oil cooler as well as the freeze plug upgrade for the very reasons you have mentioned, but decided to hold off because i felt that it wasn't as necessary an upgrade given my driving conditions.

Some of your original post leads into answers and questions, one of which I am very curious to hear since it seems you may have "seat time" given your occupation.
Considering your points on oil cooling, what would you say is the ratio of of "Service Miles" vs. "Idling Hours" on a standard issue patrol car?
I ask this because you mentioned "having to raise the hood" on a particular model and "not idling my personal car like a patrol car". I'm sure it's quite obvious that extensive idling would be the death of a car much quicker than operating it in a normal manner for 150,000 miles. That was the basis for me stating that it was overkill or really necessary.

The other part i'd like to contest is the difference in pointing to an older Porsche when comparing oil cooling. The difference between a "mechanical" car and an "electronic" one is night and day. That Porsche may have held upwards of 16 quarts of oil, but it didn't know when to stop burning it. As temps raised in the engine, the more the oil burned off, became less viscous, the needs increased for more of it to maintain a "stable" temperature. There's an old restaurant saying when it comes to working with hot oil..."The quickest way to reduce the temperature of hot oil is to add cooler oil." That pincipal in it's simplicity is not lost on oil cooling an engine. Not saying the same principals aren't in play now, but with all of the electronic sensors in the cars these days, it will know when temperatures are too high for "normal operation" and will throw the car into "limp mode". Mechanical cars would just keep right on going until somebody turned it off, the oil all burned up or the engine quit . Point is, the cars today now know their threshold and will compensate. Given all this new gadgetry, these cars under normal circumstances will not see temperatures above what is considered "safe parameters" that often. I would suspect that over time and thru normal wear & tear that this would not be the case, but there are more failsafes now than before.

This kit has an interesting read on the inner workings of oil cooling and the 2011+ Mustangs
http://www.cooltechllc.com/Boss/Boss_Oil_Cooler.shtml

GTC 06-21-2014 01:44 AM

It's hard to say the ratio of idling hours verses road hours. Typically your engine goes on when you leave the house and off when you return, unless you take a meal while on duty. However, if your working an interstate intersection due to a large event like NASCAR or a concert, your car may idle for most all of the shift. It is important to note that I can only reflect experience in state law enforcement, municipal police may answer that much differently.

I know the cars have super cooling which as far as I know means a high capacity radiator, transmission cooler and oil cooler. Crown Vic's while slow, are amazing for their ability to run up 150k miles given how they are treated. Chargers don't seem to hold up so well, and our agency stopped buying them. We are primarily buying police version Tahoes.

LE's approach to vehicles is very tool like. So you don't have the same attachment you might have with a personal car.

moosestang 06-21-2014 06:03 AM

Maybe they will stop recommending 5w20 in 2015 and go back to 5w30 or even 5w40. If I read one more post about how the motor was designed for 5w20 I'm going to throw the F up!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTC (Post 8400262)
You guys are misinformed a little bit.

Concern with oil temps is not because Ford doesn't effectively cool their vehicles, they do. I run an oil cooler for the slightly lower operating temperatures which provides numerous benefits; and, by the way, as original equipment Ford has external oil coolers on all redesigned GT 2015 Mustangs.

Many people do not recognize that oil is your second cooling system. And oil has two purposes, first lubrication, then cooling is the secondary purpose of oil. And its a very important part of its job. Often, the crankshaft, bearings, camshaft, lifters, connecting rods and pistons are only cooled by engine oil. Oil that exceeds 220F rapidly loses its ability to lubricate and cool causing accerlerated fatigue and premature component failure. All of this can happen without your engine showing any signs of over heating on that hot June day in Raleigh.

Conversely, maintaining the proper oil temperature can prolong engine life. Very generally speaking, oil, depending on the vehicle, does around 30% off the cooling in an engine. So to say an oil cooler is overkill because your car didn't overheat in Richmond in August is a very limiting view that doesn't really understand the purpose of oil coolers, and more of a statement about your radiator cooling system anyway.

And, it may be worth mentioning, you can even run oil too cool as oil must be brought to an optimal operating temperature so it may "burn off" moisture (water) in the crankcase (water in the oil can combine with combustion byproducts that happen to blow by the rings and form acids in the oil, which breaks down the oil and can corrode or form rust on anything in the crankcase). Anyway, oil gets moisture in it and that moisture continually builds up unless the oil temperature reaches at least 212 degrees to boil the water out of the oil. One of the great things about this particular Ford oil cooler is you don't have to worry about too cool as this oil cooler is liquid to liquid (it taps into the radiator). With this design, when needed on cold days, the coolant can also help to warm the oil as well. Typically, these types fit in your upper radiator hose and use coolant from the radiator to cool the oil. Cadillac is another car company who has plumbed into the radiator for OE oil coolers.

Regarding the other comment, I did not order the $1,100 set up. I ordered the one that is $278 in parts. To answer the Boss question, right the oil cooler for the GT was very inexpensive, like $78 (part #6A642), but you're not done there, you need other parts for installation such as the hoses that tap in to the radiator and so forth.

I close with a piece of history: People used to marvel at the old Porsches that were "air cooled." Reality is that those motors ran upwards of 12 quarts of oil, some even as much as 16 quarts, with very large oil coolers. Those motors should have been called oil-cooled motors instead of air-cooled. While technology has changed dramatically, it's still a decent illustration to show how important an oil cooler can be to cooling a car even though the primary cooling system now is coolant.


GTC 06-26-2014 10:29 AM

Cooler works as advertised. Needle on the oil temperature gauge lives a bit to the left of it's former location. Wish the stock gauge gave an actual temp instead of just an operating range.


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