swap to vic frame possible?
10-21-2008, 04:50 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5
swap to vic frame possible?
I have a friend that is currently swapping a cavalier onto an S10 frame to make a 350 V8 RWD car (hes going to shorten the frame) and I was wiondering if the same thing could be done with an old mustang onto a crown victoria frame.
The wheelbase is about 6" too long but I figure that could be modified. A newer full frame vic would have al the disk brakes and better suspension. Has anyone ever done this? I know I saw some redneck with a mustang on a lifted 4wd bronco frame once so it must be doable.
The wheelbase is about 6" too long but I figure that could be modified. A newer full frame vic would have al the disk brakes and better suspension. Has anyone ever done this? I know I saw some redneck with a mustang on a lifted 4wd bronco frame once so it must be doable.
10-21-2008, 06:20 PM
#2
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston, TX
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Mustang's don't have a frame like you would think. They are uni-body, which means that the frame rails are part of the body itself. Also the rails do not run from front to rear, there is front frame rails and rear rails.
I suppose it is do-able, but much of the body would have to be cut and fabricated to work. It is easier the beef up the stock suspension and add disk brakes.
I suppose it is do-able, but much of the body would have to be cut and fabricated to work. It is easier the beef up the stock suspension and add disk brakes.
10-21-2008, 09:16 PM
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5
I ask because my front subframe is toast and it would be prohibitively expensive to pay someone to replace the entire frontend of the car. I have started the work myself but I am worried that the car would snap in 2 peices while driving it someday.
I thought of a crown vic frame since it is still a body on frame design - so technically you could drop a mustang shell right onto it if you modified the wheel base. I would think cutting out a section of frame and welding it back together would be more straightforward than trying to line up all the front subframe parts.
The fact that a newer vic would have all of the modern advantages like disk brakes and possibly even a modular motor would be plusses. Has anyone ever heard of someone doing this before?
I see alot of pictures on here of totally custom made frames doing this, but I dont see anyone modifying an existing frame to work. Which would think would be pretty cheap to do.
I thought of a crown vic frame since it is still a body on frame design - so technically you could drop a mustang shell right onto it if you modified the wheel base. I would think cutting out a section of frame and welding it back together would be more straightforward than trying to line up all the front subframe parts.
The fact that a newer vic would have all of the modern advantages like disk brakes and possibly even a modular motor would be plusses. Has anyone ever heard of someone doing this before?
I see alot of pictures on here of totally custom made frames doing this, but I dont see anyone modifying an existing frame to work. Which would think would be pretty cheap to do.
10-21-2008, 09:23 PM
#6
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: TX
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For the price of what you are talking about in money and time, you could just buy a better old Mustang that isnt rusty. You can add modern brakes to a mustang from any number of places. Just seems a little crazy to try. Go for it if you can pull it off.
10-21-2008, 10:08 PM
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston, TX
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Making a completely custom frame for it would be easier than trying the make the vic frame fit.
I don't know about your area, but to have someone around here replace a rail would be probably around $100-150. That's drilling out the old rail and welding in the new.
I don't know about your area, but to have someone around here replace a rail would be probably around $100-150. That's drilling out the old rail and welding in the new.
10-22-2008, 12:25 AM
#8
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Posts: 8,162
The crown vic has used the same frame since 78 and they don't handle that well at all.Only two frames id put a mustang on http://www.gmachinechassis.com/ or art morrison.The crown vic is wider and longer the time you spend making the frame and rear end fit your mustang you could have done fixed the front on your mustang.The mod motor in the crown vic has the worse designed intake manifold i ever seen and its plastic too.Its like buying a 747 for free peanuts there's better ways to do things.
10-22-2008, 08:42 PM
#9
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Western KY
Posts: 479
+1 andrewmp6
The key is to think about your goal. If it is a quick and cheap solution to rusted frame rails, you will find that putting a unibody car onto a full frame will not be quick or easy. If you don't count labor it may be cheap but very difficult without all the right tools. Cutting up a frame and tying all the EFI computer wiring into the new body is no small task. As was said the track width is also wider so you have more than just the length to deal with. The reason a unibody is often put on a 4x4 chasis is because they are not worried about a normal car ride height. They can simply set the unibody (rust and all) right on top of the frame and get an instant body lift. Plus if the wheels are far from the wheel wells as in a 4x4 they don't have to have the perfect wheelbase a nd track width. You have a good idea in theory but it's not practical to do with a Mustang. If you still want to do it then go for it, it would be an interesting project but don't think of it as a quick, cheap and easy fix.
The key is to think about your goal. If it is a quick and cheap solution to rusted frame rails, you will find that putting a unibody car onto a full frame will not be quick or easy. If you don't count labor it may be cheap but very difficult without all the right tools. Cutting up a frame and tying all the EFI computer wiring into the new body is no small task. As was said the track width is also wider so you have more than just the length to deal with. The reason a unibody is often put on a 4x4 chasis is because they are not worried about a normal car ride height. They can simply set the unibody (rust and all) right on top of the frame and get an instant body lift. Plus if the wheels are far from the wheel wells as in a 4x4 they don't have to have the perfect wheelbase a nd track width. You have a good idea in theory but it's not practical to do with a Mustang. If you still want to do it then go for it, it would be an interesting project but don't think of it as a quick, cheap and easy fix.
10-23-2008, 08:55 AM
#10
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
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There's likely going to be a lot more involved in getting the steering & suspension for a narrowed track to work right than to shorten the wheelbase to fit. I was thinking "Schwartz chassis" as well, just didn't recognize the website name.
You can probably reinforce the OE unibody significantly without resorting to a separate frame and trade off at least some of the difficulty in getting the steering right for a more complex structural solution. I do get the impression that there's a lot of room here for non-originality as long as it isn't particularly visible.
Adapting EFI wiring into an older car really isn't all that hard, unless you didn't get the EFI parts of the harness from the donor car (or get a harness as part of an aftermarket EFI kit) and end up building the whole thing yourself. Most everything that is related to sensors and injectors is separate from the power, so the actual electrical interfacing with the older car's harness is not that extensive. It does require a larger amperage alternator than was OE on 1960's-era cars. Been through this. I found the fuel line plumbing to be more involved (you don't want the EFI pump to suck air or the engine will stumble or perhaps quit entirely).
As far as the modular motors go, I'd look to the newer aluminum 3-valve version that's in the current Mustang GT, or if the budget permits the FRPP "Aluminator". They're lighter than the pushrod Windsors in all-iron configuration, and the 3-V is about as strong as the earlier 4-V modular motor. The 5.4L GT500 motor is quite a bit more powerful, but heavier. The 2-V 4.6 that you're most likely to find in a sedan is not particularly powerful and just heavy.
Norm
You can probably reinforce the OE unibody significantly without resorting to a separate frame and trade off at least some of the difficulty in getting the steering right for a more complex structural solution. I do get the impression that there's a lot of room here for non-originality as long as it isn't particularly visible.
Adapting EFI wiring into an older car really isn't all that hard, unless you didn't get the EFI parts of the harness from the donor car (or get a harness as part of an aftermarket EFI kit) and end up building the whole thing yourself. Most everything that is related to sensors and injectors is separate from the power, so the actual electrical interfacing with the older car's harness is not that extensive. It does require a larger amperage alternator than was OE on 1960's-era cars. Been through this. I found the fuel line plumbing to be more involved (you don't want the EFI pump to suck air or the engine will stumble or perhaps quit entirely).
As far as the modular motors go, I'd look to the newer aluminum 3-valve version that's in the current Mustang GT, or if the budget permits the FRPP "Aluminator". They're lighter than the pushrod Windsors in all-iron configuration, and the 3-V is about as strong as the earlier 4-V modular motor. The 5.4L GT500 motor is quite a bit more powerful, but heavier. The 2-V 4.6 that you're most likely to find in a sedan is not particularly powerful and just heavy.
Norm
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