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ABS Light / Traction Control Off
07-27-2010, 01:53 PM
#1
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ABS Light / Traction Control Off
Today is the third or fourth time that the ABS light has come on for a short period and then turned off after a short time.
However, today is the first time I noticed that the TC would not turn back on when the ABS light was on *I almost always drive with it off, so I never noticed*
I did a search and saw something about the ABS Speed Sensors?
Does each wheel have one? That would make the most sense, as if a wheel locked up the ABS would have to know which one was not spinning at the same speed *or however the system identifies issues with braking*
Has anyone here replaced one, or had a similar issue that solved the light issue? Also, if I were to get into Auto Zone or somewhere while the ABS light was on, could they read that just like they do an SES light?
However, today is the first time I noticed that the TC would not turn back on when the ABS light was on *I almost always drive with it off, so I never noticed*
I did a search and saw something about the ABS Speed Sensors?
Does each wheel have one? That would make the most sense, as if a wheel locked up the ABS would have to know which one was not spinning at the same speed *or however the system identifies issues with braking*
Has anyone here replaced one, or had a similar issue that solved the light issue? Also, if I were to get into Auto Zone or somewhere while the ABS light was on, could they read that just like they do an SES light?
07-27-2010, 02:48 PM
#2
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
This is from the '00 Shop Manual:
The problem could be one or more sensors, the ABS pump, or the ABS module itself--I would lean toward the sensors due to the intermittent nature of the problem.
Here's a link to the complete ABS/TC description and diagnostics.
Were the rear-end gears installed recently? I ask because if the rear ABS sensors are not removed, or loosened and pushed back 1/2" or so, it is quite possible to damage them while removing the axles' U-clips.
ABS/Traction Control Principles of Operation
The anti-lock-brake control module receives wheel speed readings from each anti-lock brake sensor and processes this information to determine if an ABS event is necessary. The anti-lock brake sensor electrically senses each tooth of the anti-lock brake sensor indicators as it passes through the anti-lock brake sensor's magnetic field.
The anti-lock brake control module continuously monitors and compares the rotational speed of each wheel and, when it detects an impending wheel lock, modulates brake pressure to the appropriate brake caliper. This is accomplished by triggering the hydraulic control unit (HCU) to open and close the appropriate solenoid valves. Once the affected wheel returns to normal speed, the anti-lock brake control module returns the solenoid valves to their normal position, and normal (base) braking resumes.
The anti-lock brake control module is self-monitoring. When the ignition switch is turned to the RUN position, the anti-lock brake control module will do a preliminary electrical check, and at approximately 12 km/h (8 mph) the pump motor is turned on for approximately one half-second. Also during all phases of operation the anti-lock brake control module (after the vehicle is in motion) checks for correct operation of the anti-lock brake sensors. Any malfunction of the ABS will cause the ABS to shut off and ABS warning indicator to illuminate; normal power assisted braking, however, remains.[emphasis added]
The ABS control module has the ability to store multiple DTCs in memory.
The traction control system controls wheelspin by modulating the engine torque by communicating to the powertrain control module (PCM) and by applying, then releasing, the appropriate brake to restore traction when one or both drive wheels lose traction and begin to spin during acceleration.
The traction control system can be disabled by depressing the traction control switch. The traction control system will reset and return to normal traction assist when the ignition switch is cycled or when the traction control switch is depressed again.
The anti-lock-brake control module receives wheel speed readings from each anti-lock brake sensor and processes this information to determine if an ABS event is necessary. The anti-lock brake sensor electrically senses each tooth of the anti-lock brake sensor indicators as it passes through the anti-lock brake sensor's magnetic field.
The anti-lock brake control module continuously monitors and compares the rotational speed of each wheel and, when it detects an impending wheel lock, modulates brake pressure to the appropriate brake caliper. This is accomplished by triggering the hydraulic control unit (HCU) to open and close the appropriate solenoid valves. Once the affected wheel returns to normal speed, the anti-lock brake control module returns the solenoid valves to their normal position, and normal (base) braking resumes.
The anti-lock brake control module is self-monitoring. When the ignition switch is turned to the RUN position, the anti-lock brake control module will do a preliminary electrical check, and at approximately 12 km/h (8 mph) the pump motor is turned on for approximately one half-second. Also during all phases of operation the anti-lock brake control module (after the vehicle is in motion) checks for correct operation of the anti-lock brake sensors. Any malfunction of the ABS will cause the ABS to shut off and ABS warning indicator to illuminate; normal power assisted braking, however, remains.[emphasis added]
The ABS control module has the ability to store multiple DTCs in memory.
The traction control system controls wheelspin by modulating the engine torque by communicating to the powertrain control module (PCM) and by applying, then releasing, the appropriate brake to restore traction when one or both drive wheels lose traction and begin to spin during acceleration.
The traction control system can be disabled by depressing the traction control switch. The traction control system will reset and return to normal traction assist when the ignition switch is cycled or when the traction control switch is depressed again.
Here's a link to the complete ABS/TC description and diagnostics.
Were the rear-end gears installed recently? I ask because if the rear ABS sensors are not removed, or loosened and pushed back 1/2" or so, it is quite possible to damage them while removing the axles' U-clips.
07-27-2010, 04:01 PM
#3
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Hey look, cliffyk came up with a real answer for the first time in a few years of me being on this site ..... 
I figured that was how the system worked, by monitoring all the wheels simultaneously and then reading the speeds..
The gears have been in the car since '05,,,that'd have to be a hell of a delay *another :-) is required*
Cliff, as I asked earlier, if I could get the car diagnostic scan while the light was on, would the help me isolate the issue or not?
I figured that was how the system worked, by monitoring all the wheels simultaneously and then reading the speeds..
The gears have been in the car since '05,,,that'd have to be a hell of a delay *another :-) is required*
Cliff, as I asked earlier, if I could get the car diagnostic scan while the light was on, would the help me isolate the issue or not?
07-27-2010, 04:15 PM
#4
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
"The ABS control module has the ability to store multiple DTCs in memory. "
So, yes--however they will be body (Bnnnn) and/or chassis (Cnnnn) codes so the scanner will have to be able to read those (many can, some can't), I have an Actron CP9175 that can==most newer units can.
Make sure to scan for pending codes as well...
So, yes--however they will be body (Bnnnn) and/or chassis (Cnnnn) codes so the scanner will have to be able to read those (many can, some can't), I have an Actron CP9175 that can==most newer units can.
Make sure to scan for pending codes as well...
07-27-2010, 05:33 PM
#6
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Location: Saint Augustine, FL
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Most of us are familiar with the Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs), that all begin with a P and indicate problems with the engine and transmission, and possibly the rear end too if it had sensors tied to the PCM.
Body DTCs, prefixed with a B as in B1318, relate to problems in the "coachwork". Battery problems, bad switches (brake, clutch postion, etc), and the PCM itself.
Chassis DTCs (like C1095) indicate problems in the running gear, braking system problems, ABS, and stuff like that.
There are also U, Undefined DTCs. Many manufacturers, including Ford, use these to indicate "Network" problems, especially on the the newer CAN (Controller Area Network) bus systems
Body DTCs, prefixed with a B as in B1318, relate to problems in the "coachwork". Battery problems, bad switches (brake, clutch postion, etc), and the PCM itself.
Chassis DTCs (like C1095) indicate problems in the running gear, braking system problems, ABS, and stuff like that.
There are also U, Undefined DTCs. Many manufacturers, including Ford, use these to indicate "Network" problems, especially on the the newer CAN (Controller Area Network) bus systems
07-27-2010, 06:33 PM
#7
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Eskimo Village, Indiana *No Igloo*
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Sweet....
so it's a basic classification system....
which, as before, makes sense....
Hopefully someone can identify which wheel sensor it is because a lovely member that I know from here said he can hook me up with a replacement sensor.
so it's a basic classification system....
which, as before, makes sense....
Hopefully someone can identify which wheel sensor it is because a lovely member that I know from here said he can hook me up with a replacement sensor.
07-29-2010, 12:30 AM
#8
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 23
Most of us are familiar with the Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs), that all begin with a P and indicate problems with the engine and transmission, and possibly the rear end too if it had sensors tied to the PCM.
Body DTCs, prefixed with a B as in B1318, relate to problems in the "coachwork". Battery problems, bad switches (brake, clutch postion, etc), and the PCM itself.
Chassis DTCs (like C1095) indicate problems in the running gear, braking system problems, ABS, and stuff like that.
There are also U, Undefined DTCs. Many manufacturers, including Ford, use these to indicate "Network" problems, especially on the the newer CAN (Controller Area Network) bus systems
Body DTCs, prefixed with a B as in B1318, relate to problems in the "coachwork". Battery problems, bad switches (brake, clutch postion, etc), and the PCM itself.
Chassis DTCs (like C1095) indicate problems in the running gear, braking system problems, ABS, and stuff like that.
There are also U, Undefined DTCs. Many manufacturers, including Ford, use these to indicate "Network" problems, especially on the the newer CAN (Controller Area Network) bus systems
07-29-2010, 02:00 PM
#9
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,994
Should the Diablo Predator diagnosis system be able to catch both types of codes? My ABS light intermittently does the same thing and I've run live diagnosis and found nothing. I also have a cheapy OBD-ii reader, NOTHING. I know for a fact which wheel it's coming from since I have a bad hub in the front left. The lights didn't start doing that until after I disconnected the ABS, found my problem, then reinstalled everything. I need a new hub and probably need to either reposition, clean or replace the sensor. I'll try the cleaning first since it's a lot cheaper than the $65 replacement.
EDIT:
I bought a CP9449 by actron, and promptly returned it because they did not offer support for vehicles past 2005....this was last year when the 2010 vehicles were out already...I wasn't impressed.
The unit I have now and love is THIS one. It is 200$ now.
I can view live data with it while driving the vehicle, it has data logging capabilities, its just plain great I have nothing bad to say about it. est 200$ I've ever spent...
Last edited by devongarver; 07-29-2010 at 02:12 PM.
