66' auto to t5 swap general info questions
07-06-2013, 05:09 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 5
66' auto to t5 swap general info questions
Hello Everyone,
Two weeks ago I purchased my first Mustang! This is a complete frame up restoration project; the previous owner went ahead and tore everything down. I plan to replace pretty much everything with new/used/rebuilt parts. My problem I am having is trying to find the right way going about getting a complete T5 or T56 swap kit. I am curious if a newer Mustang can be converted to work? Like Pedals, linkage, bell housing, and any other parts that will be needed to swap it over. I have visited plenty of Mustang sites, and most sell a kit with cross member, yoke 28spline, clutch cable. However, they sell the hydraulic cylinder separate. My goal is to have everything lined up ready to go before building the car. I am also trying to get my hands on a 9’inch for it. I am building a 302 that should be around 450hp. Any information for a new guy in town of Mustangs would be appreciated! Thanks!
Two weeks ago I purchased my first Mustang! This is a complete frame up restoration project; the previous owner went ahead and tore everything down. I plan to replace pretty much everything with new/used/rebuilt parts. My problem I am having is trying to find the right way going about getting a complete T5 or T56 swap kit. I am curious if a newer Mustang can be converted to work? Like Pedals, linkage, bell housing, and any other parts that will be needed to swap it over. I have visited plenty of Mustang sites, and most sell a kit with cross member, yoke 28spline, clutch cable. However, they sell the hydraulic cylinder separate. My goal is to have everything lined up ready to go before building the car. I am also trying to get my hands on a 9’inch for it. I am building a 302 that should be around 450hp. Any information for a new guy in town of Mustangs would be appreciated! Thanks!
07-06-2013, 05:48 PM
#2
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 710
Welcome to the forum.
Stop.
Build the car.
Then buy the T5.
I dont want to sound like an ***, but most people do not make it to the paint stage on a vintage mustang much less get the chassis back to being rust free.
I always tell people to not spend any money on hard parts till you get the thing done enough to need a trans.
So many guys build some sorta trick motor and drop it in a rusty chassis and then give up and cannot understand why they are not getting their asking price since the "Restoration has already been started".
The hardest and most rewarding part of a classic mustang is having a stiff, rust free chassis that can actually handle 400HP, and after spending years on these forums I can tell you without hesitation that very few guys actually make it to that point.
Sure, some guys "Think" they have reached a certain level of build quality, but when you see the goo covered bottoms with overlapping patch panels in the floors anybody with a lick of talent can see they are full of ****.
But, in a nut shell / readers digest of all threads mustang here are the realities.
As far as the T5, Its an easy swap, get a FOX body v8 trans and the clutch kit from Modern Drive line.
External slaves dont mess up things when they fail like the internal can, and dont get me started on adjusting.
8" rear ends are under rated and you may not need a 9", stop reading the internet lore. 9" rear end housings for a 65-66 car are unique to those years and you cant snag one from a 67 car.
Subframe connectors will NOT stiffen a car that has one patch on the floor. Make the chassis right and add 68 torque boxes (or better yet build the bottom like a ragtop) and it will be much stiffer than the same car with just SFC's. Anybody that says otherwise is wrong and thinks louder mufflers make the car faster. It's "perception".
Your car has ONE floor, not floor pans...a floor PAN. If its rusted badly and you cannot butt weld in repairs then spend the $400 on a new one piece floor and have a stiff car that can handle that high HP motor that you plan. Google "Heat affected zone" before you try and weld in repair sections with a long stitch weld. The term "Brittle" may come up.
Most people will argue all night long about everything I just posted.
When they do just ask yourself this. Is your car "lesser" than the same year corvette, JAG or Ferrari? If so then feel free to listen to the other guys that say patching with overlapping panels is "Fine". But just know that most of them are justifying something.
Good luck and never be afraid to ask questions as you go.
Stop.
Build the car.
Then buy the T5.
I dont want to sound like an ***, but most people do not make it to the paint stage on a vintage mustang much less get the chassis back to being rust free.
I always tell people to not spend any money on hard parts till you get the thing done enough to need a trans.
So many guys build some sorta trick motor and drop it in a rusty chassis and then give up and cannot understand why they are not getting their asking price since the "Restoration has already been started".
The hardest and most rewarding part of a classic mustang is having a stiff, rust free chassis that can actually handle 400HP, and after spending years on these forums I can tell you without hesitation that very few guys actually make it to that point.
Sure, some guys "Think" they have reached a certain level of build quality, but when you see the goo covered bottoms with overlapping patch panels in the floors anybody with a lick of talent can see they are full of ****.
But, in a nut shell / readers digest of all threads mustang here are the realities.
As far as the T5, Its an easy swap, get a FOX body v8 trans and the clutch kit from Modern Drive line.
External slaves dont mess up things when they fail like the internal can, and dont get me started on adjusting.
8" rear ends are under rated and you may not need a 9", stop reading the internet lore. 9" rear end housings for a 65-66 car are unique to those years and you cant snag one from a 67 car.
Subframe connectors will NOT stiffen a car that has one patch on the floor. Make the chassis right and add 68 torque boxes (or better yet build the bottom like a ragtop) and it will be much stiffer than the same car with just SFC's. Anybody that says otherwise is wrong and thinks louder mufflers make the car faster. It's "perception".
Your car has ONE floor, not floor pans...a floor PAN. If its rusted badly and you cannot butt weld in repairs then spend the $400 on a new one piece floor and have a stiff car that can handle that high HP motor that you plan. Google "Heat affected zone" before you try and weld in repair sections with a long stitch weld. The term "Brittle" may come up.
Most people will argue all night long about everything I just posted.
When they do just ask yourself this. Is your car "lesser" than the same year corvette, JAG or Ferrari? If so then feel free to listen to the other guys that say patching with overlapping panels is "Fine". But just know that most of them are justifying something.
Good luck and never be afraid to ask questions as you go.
Last edited by Coupe; 07-06-2013 at 05:50 PM.
07-06-2013, 06:19 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 5
reply to Coupe
Hi Coupe,
Thanks for the information! Currently the car is rust free, I am wiring down the rest of the frame and sanding it currently. I really lucked out on this car; the guy I purchased it from did a lot of the body work already. I plan to pick up right where he left off on the right rear quarter and then go back over everything. I will seal the bottom of the car to prevent any of the future rust issues. Right now for me I am just gathering up the last few pieces I need to start building the car, I have order all new bolt kits for everything to the interior.
The only reason I plan to go with a 9 is because the way I know how I’ll drive the car. I have heard of some 8’s holding up, but I am not exactly where my HP will be at yet. I know for the kit I am following the rough estimate is 450 without any other mods. I may be upwards of 500, which worries me about the 8’inch.
I will upload some pictures soon of the car, a few of the light brackets and misc parts are holding me up now.
T
he T5 transmissions don’t seem to be too hard to obtain. My main thing here is trying to find ways of saving money in the conversion. The hydraulic clutch kit is 600 + then the T5 conversion kit with everything is another 600+. I am just trying to figure out if I can use parts from possibly the Fox body mustang I get the parts from to save some cash?
By the way I know plenty of guys start a project and never finish it, but this is something I’ve wanted to do for the last 10 years, so it’s time!
Thanks again!
Thanks for the information! Currently the car is rust free, I am wiring down the rest of the frame and sanding it currently. I really lucked out on this car; the guy I purchased it from did a lot of the body work already. I plan to pick up right where he left off on the right rear quarter and then go back over everything. I will seal the bottom of the car to prevent any of the future rust issues. Right now for me I am just gathering up the last few pieces I need to start building the car, I have order all new bolt kits for everything to the interior.
The only reason I plan to go with a 9 is because the way I know how I’ll drive the car. I have heard of some 8’s holding up, but I am not exactly where my HP will be at yet. I know for the kit I am following the rough estimate is 450 without any other mods. I may be upwards of 500, which worries me about the 8’inch.
I will upload some pictures soon of the car, a few of the light brackets and misc parts are holding me up now.
T
he T5 transmissions don’t seem to be too hard to obtain. My main thing here is trying to find ways of saving money in the conversion. The hydraulic clutch kit is 600 + then the T5 conversion kit with everything is another 600+. I am just trying to figure out if I can use parts from possibly the Fox body mustang I get the parts from to save some cash?
By the way I know plenty of guys start a project and never finish it, but this is something I’ve wanted to do for the last 10 years, so it’s time!
Thanks again!
07-06-2013, 06:25 PM
#4
No argument here, I tried the buy as you go method. You spend more money on stuff you don't need and then something else fails that you absolutely require instead of the go fast parts. I hit the point of "doing it correctly" when I bought a new wiring harness to solve a short issue, then thought "I'm about to put this brand new harness on a 45 year old car with 5 different paint jobs and 6 or 7 different decades of parts." Decided right then to strip it down and get the body right. Haven't made much progress, but in my mind it's the right thing to do.
Apologies in advance for anything you find redundant.
Depending on what your modifications are going to entail, I would do a variation of what Coupe said. Strip the car down and put stuff into piles of re-use or replace. Most of the stuff will probably go in the replace pile. Then have the car taken to bare metal and inspect it for areas that need to be replaced. Coat it in epoxy primer, then take it back home or keep it at the shop for them to do the steel work. After any sheet metal has been replaced (no filler yet) then go through and get all the frame modifications done. This includes subframe connectors, new/upgraded torque boxes, frame rail connectors, aftermarket IRS or MII suspension modifications, etc. Then go through and mock up your driveline, fuel lines, brake lines, and wiring. Mount everything and plan where you want it so all the holes will be there now instead of having to do them after you have paint on it. Get it set up, then take it all back apart. Then do the finishing body work and lineup. Once it gets back in, it will be almost like a kit car at that point.
Depending on what your doing, you shouldn't have to buy that many parts. The 65 3 spd transmission yoke is a direct fit for a mustang T5, as well as the driveshaft. Then buy a matching bellhousing (125) and the transmission (350), transmission mount (<200), only thing left is the clutch (<300). I used the cable clutch setup, works fine. Switched to the hydraulic when I moved the engine to the truck and unless the master cylinder setup is better than a stock ranger's, I miss the cable clutch. Doesn't look as nice but its half the price and no seals to bust. A second on the external slave, easy to adjust and bleed. If you look really hard you can get an F150 bellhousing from a 1987 that already has a slave cylinder mounting configuration. If you don't want to use that, then modify the bellhousing out of the car for the slave cylinder, it will look a lot better. I did mine on the truck, but it looks like crap. Come to think of it the entire truck looks like crap.
Apologies in advance for anything you find redundant.
Depending on what your modifications are going to entail, I would do a variation of what Coupe said. Strip the car down and put stuff into piles of re-use or replace. Most of the stuff will probably go in the replace pile. Then have the car taken to bare metal and inspect it for areas that need to be replaced. Coat it in epoxy primer, then take it back home or keep it at the shop for them to do the steel work. After any sheet metal has been replaced (no filler yet) then go through and get all the frame modifications done. This includes subframe connectors, new/upgraded torque boxes, frame rail connectors, aftermarket IRS or MII suspension modifications, etc. Then go through and mock up your driveline, fuel lines, brake lines, and wiring. Mount everything and plan where you want it so all the holes will be there now instead of having to do them after you have paint on it. Get it set up, then take it all back apart. Then do the finishing body work and lineup. Once it gets back in, it will be almost like a kit car at that point.
Depending on what your doing, you shouldn't have to buy that many parts. The 65 3 spd transmission yoke is a direct fit for a mustang T5, as well as the driveshaft. Then buy a matching bellhousing (125) and the transmission (350), transmission mount (<200), only thing left is the clutch (<300). I used the cable clutch setup, works fine. Switched to the hydraulic when I moved the engine to the truck and unless the master cylinder setup is better than a stock ranger's, I miss the cable clutch. Doesn't look as nice but its half the price and no seals to bust. A second on the external slave, easy to adjust and bleed. If you look really hard you can get an F150 bellhousing from a 1987 that already has a slave cylinder mounting configuration. If you don't want to use that, then modify the bellhousing out of the car for the slave cylinder, it will look a lot better. I did mine on the truck, but it looks like crap. Come to think of it the entire truck looks like crap.
07-06-2013, 06:42 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 5
Hi Clowe1965,
Without a doubt I plan to do this entire car right, and only one time. So far I have gone through the replace/repair/keep piles, which wasn’t too bad. Luckily the guy I bought it from had a lot of new parts, and gave away a lot more extras. I am going to have to look into these Torque boxes, first I’ve heard of them. The body work will get started in the next week; I still have to order 2 front fenders and a hood. However I will not order those parts till the rest of the body work is done sealed ect.
I am open to all advice here, so don’t be afraid to be blunt, I am the one seeking answers.
I am just surprised how much it cost to convert a 66’ from auto to a 6; the car originally was a 289/auto. I see the fox body kits complete for 500, granted I know they only made my style car for two and half years, but it’s the most popular Mustang!
Without a doubt I plan to do this entire car right, and only one time. So far I have gone through the replace/repair/keep piles, which wasn’t too bad. Luckily the guy I bought it from had a lot of new parts, and gave away a lot more extras. I am going to have to look into these Torque boxes, first I’ve heard of them. The body work will get started in the next week; I still have to order 2 front fenders and a hood. However I will not order those parts till the rest of the body work is done sealed ect.
I am open to all advice here, so don’t be afraid to be blunt, I am the one seeking answers.
I am just surprised how much it cost to convert a 66’ from auto to a 6; the car originally was a 289/auto. I see the fox body kits complete for 500, granted I know they only made my style car for two and half years, but it’s the most popular Mustang!
07-06-2013, 07:09 PM
#6
500 isn't that expensive for car stuff, the third member (new and upgraded) for an 8" is 900ish. Try NPD for some of the OEM equipment. Do you have a shop manual? I can scan you the clutch pages for an exploded view then you can pick and choose the parts you'll need for the hydraulic setup.
http://www.npdlink.com/store/catalog...html?year=1965
http://www.npdlink.com/store/catalog...html?year=1965
07-06-2013, 07:16 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 5
I purchased from Mustang Plus all the Body, Chassis, and Interior assembly manuals. 500 isn’t bad for a fox body, but it seems much much more for first gens. That would be great for the hydraulic setup! I have been searching for days on all the things I need to gather information on. I want to be sure I have all the information I can get, like I said body work starts next week. I will upload some before pictures next week!
Thanks for the website, I have been looking at modern driveline also for clutch stuff.
Thanks for the website, I have been looking at modern driveline also for clutch stuff.
07-06-2013, 08:18 PM
#8
Older, unless its used, is typically more expensive than the foxbody era. Not a large market so the price goes up for warehouse cost, plus people who restore them typically will pay more for quality parts, where the drag racing fox body owner is going to buy the cheapest part that keeps him on the track.
You'll have to wait on the pictures, 50 post and 30 days of forum membership are required before you can post that IIRC. You can post the link though.
You'll have to wait on the pictures, 50 post and 30 days of forum membership are required before you can post that IIRC. You can post the link though.
07-07-2013, 12:02 PM
#10
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ABQ, NM, USA
Posts: 2,593
