EGR Removal Question
09-06-2013, 10:34 PM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Posts: 280
EGR Removal Question
The previous owner hacked up all the vacuum lines and I just want the EGR gone because the car is gong to be auto crossed and I want the engine simple. Do I just need to throw a bolt in the head and get one of these plates and a tune?
http://www.foxbodyworld.com/upr-egr-...93/p/HW2590-V/
Once this is done does this get rid of the coolant passing through the egr plate?
Sorry if this has been asked a few times..
http://www.foxbodyworld.com/upr-egr-...93/p/HW2590-V/
Once this is done does this get rid of the coolant passing through the egr plate?
Sorry if this has been asked a few times..
09-07-2013, 10:52 AM
#3
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Posts: 1,799
Get a delete plate from UPR i believe that deletes the EGR spacer. You need the delete plate because it has tabs for the throttle cable. Also get an EGR eliminator which plugs into the EGR harness to avoid check engine lights. Im not sure what on your shock tower but if its got something to do with emissions take it off.
09-08-2013, 09:41 AM
#4
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Get a delete plate from UPR i believe that deletes the EGR spacer. You need the delete plate because it has tabs for the throttle cable. Also get an EGR eliminator which plugs into the EGR harness to avoid check engine lights. Im not sure what on your shock tower but if its got something to do with emissions take it off.
09-09-2013, 06:15 PM
#7
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: FL
Posts: 8
When considering reasons for deleting the EGR valve, there are t: Looks, and to eliminate the EGR function (and resulting heat and carbon from the intake).
Ford uses an internal EGR system on the fox body. So EGR comes from the exhaust port in the heads, travels up thru the middle of the lower intake, thru the upper intake, and into the back side of the EGR spacer.
When the PCM commands the EGR valve to open, Exhaust gas flows from the back side of the EGR spacer, thru the EGR valve, and into the intake manifold where it mixes with the incoming fresh air.
The PCM commands x amount of EGR flow, and achieves that by duty cycling power to the EGR vacuum regulator. The regulator alters the amount of vacuum that gets applied to the EGR valve, thereby altering how far the EGR valve opens, and how much EGR flows into the intake.
Often not considered, the PCM also adds timing to the engine at the same time the EGR valve is commanded to open. The amount of timing added depends on the amount of EGR commanded, but can get up to about 12 degrees additional timing.
This extra timing is used to offset the slower burn speed in the combustion chamber associated with a cooler combustion temperature that's caused by the EGR recirculation. Yes, while EGR is hot compared to intake temps, it is COLD compared to combustion chamber temps, so it actually cools off the combustion chamber, and therefore requires the additional timing.
To properly eliminate the EGR function:
1) It's illegal to tamper with emissions if the car is street legal, so consider that legal ramification, emissions inspections, etc.
2) You can delete the valve with a blockoff plate, but that does nothing to delete the exhaust gases that are heating up your upper and lower intake. To delete that, you have to either have a head with no EGR passages, or a lower intake gasket that blocks off EGR flow. Or fill in the lower intake's EGR passage with hard blok or something.
3) Deleting EGR flow does not stop the computer from opening the EGR valve, and adding timing to the motor at part throttle. To stop this, you have to unplug the EGR valve, or modify the tune.
4) Unplugging the EGR valve will turn on the check engine light, unless you have a tune.
5) Once you delete the EGR, you don't really need the EGR spacer at all. So you can either buy an EGR delete plate, which will move your entire inlet tubing towards the motor some, or buy an EGR spacer that's larger to match your throttle body.
6) We don't delete the EGR spacer and EGR bracket entirely, even though we could, because the spacer doubles as a throttle cable bracket bolt-on point. This is the sole reason why they offer that 3/8" EGR delete bracket. To give your throttle cable bracket something to bolt to.
So to delete your EGR entirely, it requires a chip/tune, lower intake gaskets without EGR passage, and that's it. If you want to eliminate the hole that no longer has EGR flow in it, then you add the EGR delete plate. If you want to eliminate the EGR spacer while still having something to bolt the throttle cable bracket to, buy the EGR delete spacer. If you want to keep your inlet tubing in the same position, but have a larger throttle body, buy an EGR spacer that matches your throttle body size.
The important thing here to consider is timing. If you "trick" the computer into thinking the EGR valve is still there using any kind of EGR eliminator plug, then the computer will assume it still functions correctly, and will still add timing to the motor. Timing the motor will not like. This will cause part throttle detonation.
FYI, EGR only flows when the motor is at part throttle, on a fully warmed up engine. Also, EGR will likely add 1 mpg over not having EGR.
When you delete the EGR valve, you might as well delete the EGR vacuum regulator too.
The two solenoids on the passenger shock tower are the TAB and TAD solenoids used to control where the secondary air is pumped to, from the air pump. It's part of the AIR circuit, not the EGR circuit. To delete that system, you need to have it shut off in the tune as well, or you'll get a code.
Ford uses an internal EGR system on the fox body. So EGR comes from the exhaust port in the heads, travels up thru the middle of the lower intake, thru the upper intake, and into the back side of the EGR spacer.
When the PCM commands the EGR valve to open, Exhaust gas flows from the back side of the EGR spacer, thru the EGR valve, and into the intake manifold where it mixes with the incoming fresh air.
The PCM commands x amount of EGR flow, and achieves that by duty cycling power to the EGR vacuum regulator. The regulator alters the amount of vacuum that gets applied to the EGR valve, thereby altering how far the EGR valve opens, and how much EGR flows into the intake.
Often not considered, the PCM also adds timing to the engine at the same time the EGR valve is commanded to open. The amount of timing added depends on the amount of EGR commanded, but can get up to about 12 degrees additional timing.
This extra timing is used to offset the slower burn speed in the combustion chamber associated with a cooler combustion temperature that's caused by the EGR recirculation. Yes, while EGR is hot compared to intake temps, it is COLD compared to combustion chamber temps, so it actually cools off the combustion chamber, and therefore requires the additional timing.
To properly eliminate the EGR function:
1) It's illegal to tamper with emissions if the car is street legal, so consider that legal ramification, emissions inspections, etc.
2) You can delete the valve with a blockoff plate, but that does nothing to delete the exhaust gases that are heating up your upper and lower intake. To delete that, you have to either have a head with no EGR passages, or a lower intake gasket that blocks off EGR flow. Or fill in the lower intake's EGR passage with hard blok or something.
3) Deleting EGR flow does not stop the computer from opening the EGR valve, and adding timing to the motor at part throttle. To stop this, you have to unplug the EGR valve, or modify the tune.
4) Unplugging the EGR valve will turn on the check engine light, unless you have a tune.
5) Once you delete the EGR, you don't really need the EGR spacer at all. So you can either buy an EGR delete plate, which will move your entire inlet tubing towards the motor some, or buy an EGR spacer that's larger to match your throttle body.
6) We don't delete the EGR spacer and EGR bracket entirely, even though we could, because the spacer doubles as a throttle cable bracket bolt-on point. This is the sole reason why they offer that 3/8" EGR delete bracket. To give your throttle cable bracket something to bolt to.
So to delete your EGR entirely, it requires a chip/tune, lower intake gaskets without EGR passage, and that's it. If you want to eliminate the hole that no longer has EGR flow in it, then you add the EGR delete plate. If you want to eliminate the EGR spacer while still having something to bolt the throttle cable bracket to, buy the EGR delete spacer. If you want to keep your inlet tubing in the same position, but have a larger throttle body, buy an EGR spacer that matches your throttle body size.
The important thing here to consider is timing. If you "trick" the computer into thinking the EGR valve is still there using any kind of EGR eliminator plug, then the computer will assume it still functions correctly, and will still add timing to the motor. Timing the motor will not like. This will cause part throttle detonation.
FYI, EGR only flows when the motor is at part throttle, on a fully warmed up engine. Also, EGR will likely add 1 mpg over not having EGR.
When you delete the EGR valve, you might as well delete the EGR vacuum regulator too.
The two solenoids on the passenger shock tower are the TAB and TAD solenoids used to control where the secondary air is pumped to, from the air pump. It's part of the AIR circuit, not the EGR circuit. To delete that system, you need to have it shut off in the tune as well, or you'll get a code.
09-09-2013, 07:35 PM
#8
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Posts: 280
Thanks that's a ton of info. Yeah it going to mainly be used for auto cross and car shows. It's just easier to get rid of those systems rather than repair them. Can any performance shops turn these functions off when they tune? I will be running the upr plate, plugging the back of the heads and doing a tune once I find a shop. So you are saying the exhaust gas also flows up the intake manifold? If I just get a manifold that has no egr port that will solve this?
Thanks a lot. I just don't wanna do double work later.
Ps no emissions testing out here
Thanks a lot. I just don't wanna do double work later.
Ps no emissions testing out here
09-10-2013, 01:02 PM
#9
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: FL
Posts: 8
Plugging the back of the head is for deleting the AIR pump system. To complete that delete, the TAD and TAB solenoids can be removed as well, the AIR pump removed, all the AIR pump hoses and metal lines removed, and finally the Thermactor system is shut off in the tune.
Exhaust gas does flow up through a special passage inside the lower and upper intakes, into the back side of the EGR spacer. This is a contained passage, and not part of the fresh intake air at this point. Once the EGR valve is commanded open by the PCM, the exhaust gases flow out from the EGR spacer, thru the EGR valve, and back into the EGR spacer on the front side where it mixes with the fresh intake air.
To delete that system entirely, you either run an intake manifold or cylinder head that doesn't have that EGR passage, or you simply run lower intake gaskets that don't have the EGR hole in them. The hole is in the middle of the gasket. Then, you can remove the EGR valve, EGR vacuum regulator, and use a block-off plate where the valve used to bolt on. Or, use the EGR delete plate instead of a block-off plate and EGR spacer. Finally, you have to shut the EGR system off in the tune.
You don't really need the EGR blockoff plate if you have the lower intake gaskets without the EGR hole, or if you have an intake that doesn't have EGR ports. But adding the plate looks nice, and keeps water and dirt from finding it's way into the unused EGR passage. Without an EGR spacer, there is no way for anything to get into the motor anyway.
Buying an intake that doesn't have the EGR ports is probably not easy, and the labor for changing intakes is the same labor of just changing the gasket to a no-EGR hole gasket. So unless you want to buy the intake anyway, I wouldn't consider this to be the easy way to delete EGR.
If you google pictures of a stock 5.0 intake manifold (upper and lower), and of a EGR spacer that's off the engine, you will see how the system works. Any tuning ship that has tuning software for your year car, and a chip burner and chips, can turn these systems off. We do this all the time on track-only vehicles.
Exhaust gas does flow up through a special passage inside the lower and upper intakes, into the back side of the EGR spacer. This is a contained passage, and not part of the fresh intake air at this point. Once the EGR valve is commanded open by the PCM, the exhaust gases flow out from the EGR spacer, thru the EGR valve, and back into the EGR spacer on the front side where it mixes with the fresh intake air.
To delete that system entirely, you either run an intake manifold or cylinder head that doesn't have that EGR passage, or you simply run lower intake gaskets that don't have the EGR hole in them. The hole is in the middle of the gasket. Then, you can remove the EGR valve, EGR vacuum regulator, and use a block-off plate where the valve used to bolt on. Or, use the EGR delete plate instead of a block-off plate and EGR spacer. Finally, you have to shut the EGR system off in the tune.
You don't really need the EGR blockoff plate if you have the lower intake gaskets without the EGR hole, or if you have an intake that doesn't have EGR ports. But adding the plate looks nice, and keeps water and dirt from finding it's way into the unused EGR passage. Without an EGR spacer, there is no way for anything to get into the motor anyway.
Buying an intake that doesn't have the EGR ports is probably not easy, and the labor for changing intakes is the same labor of just changing the gasket to a no-EGR hole gasket. So unless you want to buy the intake anyway, I wouldn't consider this to be the easy way to delete EGR.
If you google pictures of a stock 5.0 intake manifold (upper and lower), and of a EGR spacer that's off the engine, you will see how the system works. Any tuning ship that has tuning software for your year car, and a chip burner and chips, can turn these systems off. We do this all the time on track-only vehicles.
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