Subs, square vs round...
10-02-2007, 07:33 PM
#1
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Subs, square vs round...
I did some reading in the audio section, and realized that there are a few very knowledgable people in here when it comes to audio. Ive only been decent with putting together off-the-shelf items and making them sound decent considering that its all mis-matched stuff. Ive decided that id like to take some time to actually learn a bit of the dynamics of car audio.
One thing that has had me puzzled is the square sub. A good friend of mine had a 15" L7 in his Dakota, and it was the most insane thing ive ever been in. He had some connections with a shop that has been in competitions and whatnot, so i figure that they worked a bit of magic for him, but ive never experienced bass like that out of any round speaker personally.
Is there any reasoning why a square sub would have an advantage over a round sub or vice versa?
One thing that has had me puzzled is the square sub. A good friend of mine had a 15" L7 in his Dakota, and it was the most insane thing ive ever been in. He had some connections with a shop that has been in competitions and whatnot, so i figure that they worked a bit of magic for him, but ive never experienced bass like that out of any round speaker personally.
Is there any reasoning why a square sub would have an advantage over a round sub or vice versa?
10-02-2007, 08:19 PM
#3
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RE: Subs, square vs round...
More cone surface is the only advantage to non-circular subwoofers.
Other than that it is completly cosmetic.
The corners in the surround only increases the chance for distortion, and in my opinion a higher stress point where you may have issues because of the corners.
Think of it as to, why the pistons in your engine are round...
Especially with your friends L7 being a 15" and a square subwoofer that is why the output of it is rather significant, compared to other.
If you understand displacement then it's just down to math as to why it is louder (in many cases) I guarantee you will never find a square subwoofer sound better than a round one.
If you take a driver with ok excursion like an L7. And a woofer with great cone surface like an L7 you end up with pretty good output.
If you take a driver with great excursion like a 13W7. And a woofer with decent cone surface like the 13W7, you end up with decent output.
The W7 will definatly sound better though.
It's all like an engine, the cone surface is like the size of the piston, and excursion is like the stroke of the piston.
Other than that it is completly cosmetic.
The corners in the surround only increases the chance for distortion, and in my opinion a higher stress point where you may have issues because of the corners.
Think of it as to, why the pistons in your engine are round...
Especially with your friends L7 being a 15" and a square subwoofer that is why the output of it is rather significant, compared to other.
If you understand displacement then it's just down to math as to why it is louder (in many cases) I guarantee you will never find a square subwoofer sound better than a round one.
If you take a driver with ok excursion like an L7. And a woofer with great cone surface like an L7 you end up with pretty good output.
If you take a driver with great excursion like a 13W7. And a woofer with decent cone surface like the 13W7, you end up with decent output.
The W7 will definatly sound better though.
It's all like an engine, the cone surface is like the size of the piston, and excursion is like the stroke of the piston.
10-02-2007, 09:00 PM
#4
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RE: Subs, square vs round...
ORIGINAL: seight311
More cone surface is the only advantage to non-circular subwoofers.
Other than that it is completly cosmetic.
The corners in the surround only increases the chance for distortion, and in my opinion a higher stress point where you may have issues because of the corners.
Think of it as to, why the pistons in your engine are round...
Especially with your friends L7 being a 15" and a square subwoofer that is why the output of it is rather significant, compared to other.
If you understand displacement then it's just down to math as to why it is louder (in many cases) I guarantee you will never find a square subwoofer sound better than a round one.
If you take a driver with ok excursion like an L7. And a woofer with great cone surface like an L7 you end up with pretty good output.
If you take a driver with great excursion like a 13W7. And a woofer with decent cone surface like the 13W7, you end up with decent output.
The W7 will definatly sound better though.
It's all like an engine, the cone surface is like the size of the piston, and excursion is like the stroke of the piston.
More cone surface is the only advantage to non-circular subwoofers.
Other than that it is completly cosmetic.
The corners in the surround only increases the chance for distortion, and in my opinion a higher stress point where you may have issues because of the corners.
Think of it as to, why the pistons in your engine are round...
Especially with your friends L7 being a 15" and a square subwoofer that is why the output of it is rather significant, compared to other.
If you understand displacement then it's just down to math as to why it is louder (in many cases) I guarantee you will never find a square subwoofer sound better than a round one.
If you take a driver with ok excursion like an L7. And a woofer with great cone surface like an L7 you end up with pretty good output.
If you take a driver with great excursion like a 13W7. And a woofer with decent cone surface like the 13W7, you end up with decent output.
The W7 will definatly sound better though.
It's all like an engine, the cone surface is like the size of the piston, and excursion is like the stroke of the piston.
The key to remember is that with a square cone you will getnon-linear deformation. A round cone is a very strong shape and diplaced stress applied in the middle to the entire circumference of the circle. With asquare sub, if the cone is put under stress it will deform irregularly becuase thereare differentlenghs from the center of the woofer to the edges.
They have more surface area so you can have smaller excursion but still produce a lot of spl. With a round woofer a little more power is needed to ge the same spl becuase of the smallersurface are.
10-02-2007, 09:24 PM
#5
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RE: Subs, square vs round...
damn, talk about hitting the nail on the head!^
also, the rubber/foam wears out waaay faster on square drivers compared to cylindricals. from what iveseen, a square doesnt exactly push up as it does coming back down. whereas a cone will be almost precise.
also, the rubber/foam wears out waaay faster on square drivers compared to cylindricals. from what iveseen, a square doesnt exactly push up as it does coming back down. whereas a cone will be almost precise.
10-02-2007, 09:55 PM
#6
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RE: Subs, square vs round...
Wow, you guys are good. I understand the surface area and excursion, but never thought much about it with the square subs.
Im guessing since the square has more deflection points, it would tend to get more muddy, and possibly less responsive than a nicer round speaker?
Because of my friend, Ive been wanting to run L7's for ages, I had a 12" Kicker Comp powered by a Crossfire amp, and while it sounded good, it never had the volume I wanted. I could crank out highs, and the bass was never able to keep with the highs, and since i listen to a lot of metal, the sub could never keep with double bassing drums. From what i heard, the L7's seemed superior, but that could have a lot to do with the enclosure volume and shape.
Man, thanks for the information, it seems like this is the only place where i get to read complete sentences!
Im guessing since the square has more deflection points, it would tend to get more muddy, and possibly less responsive than a nicer round speaker?
Because of my friend, Ive been wanting to run L7's for ages, I had a 12" Kicker Comp powered by a Crossfire amp, and while it sounded good, it never had the volume I wanted. I could crank out highs, and the bass was never able to keep with the highs, and since i listen to a lot of metal, the sub could never keep with double bassing drums. From what i heard, the L7's seemed superior, but that could have a lot to do with the enclosure volume and shape.
Man, thanks for the information, it seems like this is the only place where i get to read complete sentences!
10-02-2007, 10:05 PM
#7
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RE: Subs, square vs round...
You can get louder and sound better than that L7, you could do it with a 12" easily, just need a decent size box and reliable power on tap.
Did I mention unless his stuff was free that yours would be cheaper as well?
Did I mention unless his stuff was free that yours would be cheaper as well?
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