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Old 11-23-2010, 01:22 AM   #1
JH_67
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Default Help requested on 1967, 289 Stock to Mild Performance Build

Hi All,
I am trying to find the right combination for my 1967, 289 coupe.
I would like to draw upon your experiences for my project, please any thoughts are welcome.
I am an every other weekend driver but want to have good low end acceleration. This car will never be on the track but should see from time to time a few stoplight to stoplight experiences. At the present everything is stock and I will be replacing my 2-barrel carburetor and intake. Both my C4-automatic and stock rear end are not in the plans to be altered at this time. Although I will put headers and an ‘H’ pipe on my existing dual exhaust.
The parts that I have acquired so far are both an Edelbrock performer manifold (2121) and a RPM/AirGap manifold (7521) – unsure which to use; I’ve been told the AirGap is not for a mild build (high RPM’s only) and would not help with the low end torque I desire, and since I’m not going to wind out the engine above 5500 (probably not even close to that) I’m just not sure which to use. I also have a new Edelbrock 600cfm carburetor (1406). These are the only parts I have in hand and they are all new, still in boxes and not returnable.
I have been struggling with what to do with the Heads. I could use the stock 289’s but would need to do a valve job and port match the exhaust to compliment the introductory system. Or I could get a set of GT-40’s (not ‘P’s) local availability around $300, used in good shape but would still have to do a valve job, on these no exhaust porting would be required (these may lower my compression slightly). Either of these options would only be a stones throw away from a new set of aluminum heads (possibly Edelbrock RPM (60229) that can be used with my stock pistons of which are not going to be changed out.
I have been looking at replacing my cam with a Comp Cam xe256 as noted in previous threads. The posting that grabbed me the most was by Kalli’s & Starfury’s wonderful detailed description that was posted back in June 2008 “XE256H on stock engine and heads”.
Anyway I would really appreciate any comments regarding if I am on the right path with the components I have listed.
Thank you for your suggestions in advance!!!
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:32 AM   #2
tx65coupe
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My car is basically built the same as what your wanting to do.

I would run the Performer intake.

I have the Edelbrock aluminum heads on mine and am very satisfied with them.

I think I would go with a mild cam.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:01 AM   #3
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tx65coupe, your car sounds Fantastic!
What are the Edelbrock part numbers that you incorporated in your build?
Is the cam also Edelbrock?
How is your low end toque?

Last edited by JH_67; 11-23-2010 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:02 PM   #4
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i just searched for that topic and read through the whole article again.
it was a while back and a _lot_ has changed in my engine (well it's a different engin)

you're best off in asking the classic mustang technical section (not the general discussion). you have a bigger audience there

I like that you already know that you won't rev much past 5500. most people look for a cam that makes peak power at 7000+ when the engine disentigrates at 6000 :-)

I am still on the opinion that the xe256h is a great broad power cam for a stock 289.
Of course if the intake/exhaust is improved only then it makes sense.

As for your build:
the air gap is a fantastic manifold which I'd love for my engine, but yes it's made for engines that have their powerrange at 1500-6500
very same as the performer rpm. They're both tall so you might run into clearance issues with the hood depending on the carburetor and filter. That could be sorted though.
I would still take that airgap (dual plane) over any single plane intake (like the victor series) on a street driven car.
The performer (2121) and the weiand (8124 i think) are both good choices for what you're planning.

as said, post in the technical forum. more people will respond.
i think if you keep the stock bottom end with
- performer intake
- edelbrock 600cfm carb
- headers
- edelbrock heads
- xe256H
is still a good choice. don't forget to check out the edelbrock e-street heads!
They are cheaper and might be a better match, _but_ if you do any other performance upgrades .. maybe bottom end at some day, you will be happy you chose them

I don't really understand edelbrocks pricing policy (or summit prices)

the '9' in the end of head part number usually means single (not a pair of heads).

So it goes:
edelbrock e-streets (1.9 intake)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-5023/
930$ for the pair

the performer head with 1.9 intake:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-60329/
609.50 each -> 1210$ the pair

performer rpm with 1.9 intake:
$576.50 each (why cheaper than performer???) -> 1153$ the pair

so from that it's either e-street or rpm.

Now here's the question: why not use rpm heads, airgap intake. live with the consequences: missing torque at low end not using the parts to best and later down the road do the bottom end and only change the cam?

Impossible for me to advise others :-)

post in technical section and you have more people commenting for sure.

and ya, like the sounds of tx65coupes car as well, so I bought the same mufflers (still waiting to find time for an install flowmaster 40->dynomax ultraflo welded)

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Old 11-23-2010, 08:31 PM   #5
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Kalli,
I love your detailed response, you are very articulate!
This info has definitely given me great ideas. Now I need to think a bit. I haven't heard of the e-streets heads, I will look into those. I was originally thinking about the RPM's, there is a $223 difference b/t the two and definitely worth looking into!
I like the ideas you have with the AirGap; maybe the xe256 would help with the low end loss?
Also, I guess I'm lame but I thought I started this post in the technical forum - maybe I need a little help finding that one to....
Thanks again for the guidance!
BTW, Listening forward to hearing your sound when you get a chance to install teh Flowmasters...

Last edited by JH_67; 11-23-2010 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:38 AM   #6
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Most people build these hyped up motors that in fact are not fun to drive or have many issues with mis-matched parts, I think you are on the right track.

I am an edelbrock fan and have used the 1406 / performer manifold on more than a few motors. If you are up for spending $ on a set of aluminum heads, here is what my motor would look like, which is almost identical to Kalli:
- performer intake
- edelbrock 600cfm carb
- headers / low restriction muffler
- new lifters / timing chain / roller rocker
- edelbrock aluminium heads
- matching edelbrock cam 2122

ENGINE: FORD 289-302 V8
RPM RANGE: Idle-5500

Duration at 0.006" Lift: Intake: 270° Exhaust: 280°
Duration at 0.050" Lift: Intake: 204° Exhaust: 214°
Lift at Cam: Intake: 0.280" Exhaust: 0.295"
Lift at Valve: Intake: 0.448" Exhaust: 0.472"
Timing at 0.050" lift: Open Close
Intake: 5° ATDC 29° ABDC
Exhaust: 44° BBDC 10° BTDC
Centerlines: Lobe Separation - 112° Intake Centerline - 107°

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:51 AM   #7
tx65coupe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JH_67 View Post
tx65coupe, your car sounds Fantastic!
What are the Edelbrock part numbers that you incorporated in your build?
Is the cam also Edelbrock?
How is your low end toque?
Thanks. The low end torque and mid range power is great. I think it is perfect for a street car. Its basically just a cruiser. I love it. It can hang with my Dad's 97 Cobra.

I wouldn't want to give up low end torque for high RPM power. I rarely take it above 4,000 to 4,500 RPM anyway. If it was a drag strip car, I might change my mind about that.

It has an Edelbrock 650 Thunder AVS carburetor on top of an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake. It has Edelbrock Performer RPM heads with roller rockers. It has a mild cam. I'll have to look and see which one it has.

Here is the cam info. ELGIN # E-1017P
212 / 222 Duration @ 050 .493 / .510 Valve Lift.

Some other details. It has a Pertronix billet distributor, Ford Racing King Cobra Clutch, JBA mid length headers with 2.5 inch exhaust and H pipe.

Since mufflers were mentioned, I will say that the Dynomax Ultraflo mufflers sound far better than the Blowmasters with less interior drone too. You can still hear them in the car, but its not obnoxious. I also like that fact that you can see straight through them.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:34 PM   #8
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JH,

I gave this some more thought on your situation and I think your biggest risk is that you don't know these motors too well.

You have a good and matched edelbrock intake/carb, which is consistent with your desire for a performing street motor. Fine, good start.

Now you have to choose:
Cam
Head
Lifters
Pushrods
Rocker arms

You have to cover a lot of bases when you get heads from V, cam from W, lifters from X, pushrods from Y, rocker arms from Z. It is not as simple as ordering out of the catalog. All the parts have to work together and be correct for your application. If you can find someone that has the exact same set-up and is tried and true, excellent, that should eliminate some of the big problems you may encounter.

This is why I would recommend sticking with all Edelbrock, at least for your first motor. Yea, you could probably get another 15 hp out of trickflow heads, but what does that do to your pushrod length? Do you now need special headers? Does in change your compression? Are you buying bare, if so which valve springs? There are a ton of things, all which have to be right to have a long lasting, properly running motor.

Edelbrock has dynotuned these packages and has been selling them since the 80's. They have all the bugs wrung out. Whatever you choose, good luck and be sure to post your progress.

Click the image to open in full size.


Note, this is thier power package, probably one step above what you are looking at.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:43 PM   #9
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very valid point (buying a set), however the horsepower and torque ratings are to be ignored. you see that the torque climbs at 3000 and he'll max out at 5500 with the pistons. I never tried to rev a stocker higher because the heads would fall flat on their face. but here we're running into dangerous territory ... wooooheeeeeee...bam

i have exactly that set with 10:1 compression, proper ignition. only thing I changed is the cam, but my but-o-meter tells me maybe just past the 300hp mark ... i'll maybe see at a dynoshop in summer.

but yes, it is a safer option for unexperienced to buy a set. the edelbrock perfromer rpm cam is great (had that), i just hear more than plenty to stay away from the edelbrock perfromer cam.

I would love to hear any opinion on running the edelbrock perfromer rpm kit on a stock 289 ... anyone ever do that?
my bottom end is built for it so i can't tell ?!

so if you'd get the performer kit I'd still change the cam to xe256h but I don't think it's worth the money/hassle then as I'd guess the kit price is like all parts +cam for free as discount so to say, if you'd get the performer rpm kit you can leave all parts matched

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CSRP disc brakes front and FRPP discs back.
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Last edited by kalli; 11-25-2010 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:31 PM   #10
JH_67
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Kalli, tx65coupe & GT350R_Klone, I can’t thank you enough for your input!
Today, StreetSideAuto.com had its annual Black Friday Sale, and with what we were all looking at and I was finally able to bring my costs down enough to pull the trigger – still a lot though.
The Edelbrock RPM Heads were $605 today; funny how with a sale the costs went up in price from Wednesday at $576.50 each. So I challenged them to reduce the price to Wednesday’s to not be an artificial increase due to the sale and they honored the $576.50 price. And with each $500 there was a $100 sale discount so I ended up getting the pair for $953.00 (with free shipping and no TAX); how could I go wrong?
TeamC.com had the best prices on the xe256, lifters, roller rockers that CompCam suggested ($151), head & intake bolts so I ordered those also, although I don’t pay for any of those until I pick those up (I’m only a few miles away, kilos for you Kalli!).
I have already got the gaskets, but I will need to get a push rod checker.
I will let you all know how this combination works in about a month right around the end of year holidays when I take some vacation time off. But I’m pretty excited now so I’m not sure I will be able to wait until then…
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:31 PM
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