WTF Someone Tried To Steal My Rim Cap
10-29-2006, 06:59 PM
#11
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 17,565
RE: WTF Someone Tried To Steal My Rim Cap
ORIGINAL: THUMPIN455
A slow painfull death with an eternity of torture to all automotive vandals and thieves... Nobody wants to be the one I catch messin with one of my rides...
A slow painfull death with an eternity of torture to all automotive vandals and thieves... Nobody wants to be the one I catch messin with one of my rides...
How about your state? http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=18
10-29-2006, 07:18 PM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 457
RE: WTF Someone Tried To Steal My Rim Cap
Florida is one of the easiest states to get a concealed weapon permit. However, it is illegal in all states to use lethal force to soley protect property. So, if you shoot a thief you'd better make sure he has a deadly weapon on him so you can claim self-defense or you're going to jail.
10-29-2006, 07:21 PM
#13
Yukon Cornelius
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: deep in the heart of dixie GEORGIA
Posts: 11,808
RE: WTF Someone Tried To Steal My Rim Cap
thats why u always carry a knife to put in there hand, didnt florida just pass the law were you are allowed to use lethal force when being car jacked etc?
10-29-2006, 07:41 PM
#15
Yukon Cornelius
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: deep in the heart of dixie GEORGIA
Posts: 11,808
RE: WTF Someone Tried To Steal My Rim Cap
im pretty sure in involves any propert that u feel threatened i remember reading it on www.jaxracing.com a while back i beileve or seeing something on the jax news?
10-30-2006, 11:57 AM
#18
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: florida
Posts: 1,413
RE: WTF Someone Tried To Steal My Rim Cap
actually you only have to prove fear of life or bodily injury to protect yourself. I can't count how many times people have be shot in the dark trying to steal chickens or something and the person protecting themselvs were not found in the wrong. Even in a fist fight, it's only self defense until your attacker is no longer a threat (usually that means they've hit the ground) but even that is a matter of opionion, hell that's why them lawyer folk make so much money
10-30-2006, 12:04 PM
#19
Yukon Cornelius
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: deep in the heart of dixie GEORGIA
Posts: 11,808
RE: WTF Someone Tried To Steal My Rim Cap
yeah texas is a completley different animla all together yeah if u beat someone senseless then its not self defense but if u shoot them twice to stop them from coming at u it is
10-30-2006, 12:08 PM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 457
RE: WTF Someone Tried To Steal My Rim Cap
If you shoot an unarmed person i.e. a person using only his fists, then you're going to jail. Read this article, particularly the last paragraph
"Bringing a Gun to a Fist Fight"
Here's a case that I recently had in a debriefing:
Woman and new Boyfriend go to pick up Woman’s children at ex-Husband’s apartment.
Boyfriend stays downstairs as Woman walks up to the second-floor apartment to pick up her kids. Woman enters ex-Husband’s apartment and an argument ensues. Woman kicks ex-Husband during the argument which is so heated that a neighbor across the hall comes out on the landing to investigate as Boyfriend comes up the stairs to the landing as well.
Boyfriend stays outside of the apartment as Woman exits apartment and both of them descend the staircase to the ground level.
Ex-Husband comes out of the apartment and confronts Woman and Boyfriend at ground level. Shoving match ensues between Boyfriend and ex-Husband which escalates to a fight.
The fight goes to the ground with ex-Husband on top of Boyfriend. Ex-Husband is described alternatively as “50 pounds heavier” and “twice the size” of the Boyfriend.
Boyfriend, attempts to draw his licensed handgun from a waist pack while shouting to the ex-Husband to “Get off of me”!
Ex-Husband begins struggling with the Boyfriend over the handgun. Boyfriend manages to retain the handgun, disengage himself from Husband and stand up. Witnesses report that Boyfriend points the handgun at Husband and begins backing up yelling, “Don’t make me shoot you, don’t make me shoot you!”.
Police Officers arrive on scene at this time, command Boyfriend to drop his handgun. Boyfriend holsters his weapon, and grounds the waist pack.
Situation is called Code 4 at this time.
The result of this incident is that Woman and Boyfriend are both arrested and jailed. Woman is jailed for assault, Boyfriend for a myriad of weapons charges as well as assault, attempted aggravated assault, and threatening and intimidating. When you first review this incident, it would appear that Woman might have a tough time beating the assault charge, but Boyfriend did nothing wrong and was reasonably in fear of his safety from a clearly larger man who attacked him.
Not knowing all the details of the incident, it would appear that the thinking for the arrest and prosecution are twofold:
1. Woman and Boyfriend gave up certain elements under the law for invoking protection under self-defense statues by going over to the Ex-Husband’s apartment. In other words, officers on the scene asked “Who lives here?” Ex-Husband probably says something like “I live here and they both came over and attacked me – and he brought a GUN!” I’ve seen a similar incident where a man went over to a neighbor’s house to complain about their dog. When the dog owner attacked the visitor and the visitor defended himself, the visitor ended up facing charges because it’s difficult to prove that he did not go over to the neighbor’s house to start a fight. Even when witnesses corroborate that the Boyfriend retreated to the ground level of the apartment building, the fact remains that Boyfriend and Woman initially went to the ex-husband’s residence. Remember that a man’s home is his castle.
2. Boyfriend brought a deadly weapon – and he was wearing it on his person. This demonstrates to some that Boyfriend was either expecting trouble or was looking for it.
Some interesting aspects of this incident for consideration:
• The fight “found” the Boyfriend, even though it appears that he was not pursuing it. Although he was armed (legally in this case) he never entered the apartment and he retreated when the Woman came out. You might find yourself in a situation which is spiraling out of control due to nothing that you have done. You might not be able to disengage from a violent encounter even when you are trying desperately to.
• Surprise, surprise, the fight ended up on the ground. The obviously larger man probably felt he could press his advantage by wrestling the smaller man to the ground. Or, the smaller man could have sought to protect himself by instinctively clinching with the ex-Husband. Or, they might have simply tripped over each other during the fight and fallen. There are a number of ways you might end up rolling in the dirt, but reality shows us over and over that a large percentage of fights end up there. You might be a great standup fighter, but it is imperative that you know how to protect yourself in a grappling situation.
• You can’t bring a gun to a fist fight. Sorry to all of you high-speed shooters out there, but the law really frowns on gun-toting citizens engaging in fights with unarmed citizens – and then pulling your gun on that unarmed person. It’s all about reasonable force. If you are one of those people who opines, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than buried by 6!”, you’re almost certain to be judged by those 12. Here’s where it gets difficult, if you are an able-bodied man, you cannot generally use lethal force to defend against non-lethal force. Yes, lethal force can be used if a reasonable person would believe that it is necessary to avoid death or serious injury. But, I’m telling you, if you are fighting an unarmed person and you end up pulling your gun, there’s a good chance you are going to jail.
"Bringing a Gun to a Fist Fight"
Here's a case that I recently had in a debriefing:
Woman and new Boyfriend go to pick up Woman’s children at ex-Husband’s apartment.
Boyfriend stays downstairs as Woman walks up to the second-floor apartment to pick up her kids. Woman enters ex-Husband’s apartment and an argument ensues. Woman kicks ex-Husband during the argument which is so heated that a neighbor across the hall comes out on the landing to investigate as Boyfriend comes up the stairs to the landing as well.
Boyfriend stays outside of the apartment as Woman exits apartment and both of them descend the staircase to the ground level.
Ex-Husband comes out of the apartment and confronts Woman and Boyfriend at ground level. Shoving match ensues between Boyfriend and ex-Husband which escalates to a fight.
The fight goes to the ground with ex-Husband on top of Boyfriend. Ex-Husband is described alternatively as “50 pounds heavier” and “twice the size” of the Boyfriend.
Boyfriend, attempts to draw his licensed handgun from a waist pack while shouting to the ex-Husband to “Get off of me”!
Ex-Husband begins struggling with the Boyfriend over the handgun. Boyfriend manages to retain the handgun, disengage himself from Husband and stand up. Witnesses report that Boyfriend points the handgun at Husband and begins backing up yelling, “Don’t make me shoot you, don’t make me shoot you!”.
Police Officers arrive on scene at this time, command Boyfriend to drop his handgun. Boyfriend holsters his weapon, and grounds the waist pack.
Situation is called Code 4 at this time.
The result of this incident is that Woman and Boyfriend are both arrested and jailed. Woman is jailed for assault, Boyfriend for a myriad of weapons charges as well as assault, attempted aggravated assault, and threatening and intimidating. When you first review this incident, it would appear that Woman might have a tough time beating the assault charge, but Boyfriend did nothing wrong and was reasonably in fear of his safety from a clearly larger man who attacked him.
Not knowing all the details of the incident, it would appear that the thinking for the arrest and prosecution are twofold:
1. Woman and Boyfriend gave up certain elements under the law for invoking protection under self-defense statues by going over to the Ex-Husband’s apartment. In other words, officers on the scene asked “Who lives here?” Ex-Husband probably says something like “I live here and they both came over and attacked me – and he brought a GUN!” I’ve seen a similar incident where a man went over to a neighbor’s house to complain about their dog. When the dog owner attacked the visitor and the visitor defended himself, the visitor ended up facing charges because it’s difficult to prove that he did not go over to the neighbor’s house to start a fight. Even when witnesses corroborate that the Boyfriend retreated to the ground level of the apartment building, the fact remains that Boyfriend and Woman initially went to the ex-husband’s residence. Remember that a man’s home is his castle.
2. Boyfriend brought a deadly weapon – and he was wearing it on his person. This demonstrates to some that Boyfriend was either expecting trouble or was looking for it.
Some interesting aspects of this incident for consideration:
• The fight “found” the Boyfriend, even though it appears that he was not pursuing it. Although he was armed (legally in this case) he never entered the apartment and he retreated when the Woman came out. You might find yourself in a situation which is spiraling out of control due to nothing that you have done. You might not be able to disengage from a violent encounter even when you are trying desperately to.
• Surprise, surprise, the fight ended up on the ground. The obviously larger man probably felt he could press his advantage by wrestling the smaller man to the ground. Or, the smaller man could have sought to protect himself by instinctively clinching with the ex-Husband. Or, they might have simply tripped over each other during the fight and fallen. There are a number of ways you might end up rolling in the dirt, but reality shows us over and over that a large percentage of fights end up there. You might be a great standup fighter, but it is imperative that you know how to protect yourself in a grappling situation.
• You can’t bring a gun to a fist fight. Sorry to all of you high-speed shooters out there, but the law really frowns on gun-toting citizens engaging in fights with unarmed citizens – and then pulling your gun on that unarmed person. It’s all about reasonable force. If you are one of those people who opines, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than buried by 6!”, you’re almost certain to be judged by those 12. Here’s where it gets difficult, if you are an able-bodied man, you cannot generally use lethal force to defend against non-lethal force. Yes, lethal force can be used if a reasonable person would believe that it is necessary to avoid death or serious injury. But, I’m telling you, if you are fighting an unarmed person and you end up pulling your gun, there’s a good chance you are going to jail.