E85
10-20-2007, 12:40 PM
#12
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
RE: E85
You shouldn't have any problem putting E85 in a stock fuel tank. Just remember this though, if you build a high boost/high compression car that can only run on race fuel or E85, if you ever drive to someplace that doesn't have E85 or 100+octane pump fuelyou're screwed.
As far as the E85 we use here in America,sinceit's made from corn and not sugar or other plants it's a lot more unstable. Straight corn based ethanol tries to turn to a gelatenous states once the tempurature starts getting down around 40 deg F, so they make it E85, 15% gasoline by volume to prevent this, and provide enough volatility in cold weather that the engine can start. I'm not against alcohol based fuels, but I am against making it from corn, because it's the least cost effective and most inefficient way to make alcohol based fuels from the available resources there are. If we made it from sugarcane like Brazil(which is hard since we don't have the tropical climate conducive to growing sugar) we'd be far better off since it would take much less energy to produce and store, it's more stable andcosts a lot less. I've heard recently of a discovery in Israel I believe of a plant that is basically like a weed that requires very little water and can grow in the crappiest of soils, but produces something like 2-2.5x as much ethanol per acre as corn does, and doesn't have the same stability issues. That's what we should be working on developing if we choose to go with an alcohol based fuel since a lot of otherwise useless land could be turned into farmland for fuel.
In the end though we do need to get off our dependance on oil, especially from foreign sources, and develop cleaner fuels. The one thing I have a problem with is electricity production. Everyone wants a cleaner burning alternative fuel vehicle(I mean Americans in general, not necessarily anyone here) but has nothing to say about continuing to burn oil, coal and natural gas to make most of ourelectricty. Which is also a problem for making any cleaner fuel such as ethanol, because the energy to produce it still has to come from a powerplant, about 60% of which in Americaare burning fossil fuels. [>:]
We need more nuclear power, at least in the short term. And though there are those that decry the use of nuclear, look at France, nearly all of their power is nuclear and they have no problems at all. Less than 10% of American powerplants are nuclear but they produce more than 20% of the nation's electricity. And aside from 3 Mile Island(which didn't injure or kill anyone, and didn't leak any more radiation than you get from being outside for a few hours) we've had no problems. People will complain about nuclear waste and not wanting to bury it in the ground in order to avoid air pollution, but they have no problem using catalytic converters to make the air cleaner and bury those in the ground? More people have gotten ill/died in this country from Cats than from nuclear energy.
Though perhaps the most retarded of all is that when someone tries to build a wind farm or a hydroelectric power station, the environmentalists complain that it makes things look ugly, and try to block it's development. They want 0 pollution power, yet every time someone tries to build a 0 polluting power station they block in on environmental concerns?
As far as the E85 we use here in America,sinceit's made from corn and not sugar or other plants it's a lot more unstable. Straight corn based ethanol tries to turn to a gelatenous states once the tempurature starts getting down around 40 deg F, so they make it E85, 15% gasoline by volume to prevent this, and provide enough volatility in cold weather that the engine can start. I'm not against alcohol based fuels, but I am against making it from corn, because it's the least cost effective and most inefficient way to make alcohol based fuels from the available resources there are. If we made it from sugarcane like Brazil(which is hard since we don't have the tropical climate conducive to growing sugar) we'd be far better off since it would take much less energy to produce and store, it's more stable andcosts a lot less. I've heard recently of a discovery in Israel I believe of a plant that is basically like a weed that requires very little water and can grow in the crappiest of soils, but produces something like 2-2.5x as much ethanol per acre as corn does, and doesn't have the same stability issues. That's what we should be working on developing if we choose to go with an alcohol based fuel since a lot of otherwise useless land could be turned into farmland for fuel.
In the end though we do need to get off our dependance on oil, especially from foreign sources, and develop cleaner fuels. The one thing I have a problem with is electricity production. Everyone wants a cleaner burning alternative fuel vehicle(I mean Americans in general, not necessarily anyone here) but has nothing to say about continuing to burn oil, coal and natural gas to make most of ourelectricty. Which is also a problem for making any cleaner fuel such as ethanol, because the energy to produce it still has to come from a powerplant, about 60% of which in Americaare burning fossil fuels. [>:]
We need more nuclear power, at least in the short term. And though there are those that decry the use of nuclear, look at France, nearly all of their power is nuclear and they have no problems at all. Less than 10% of American powerplants are nuclear but they produce more than 20% of the nation's electricity. And aside from 3 Mile Island(which didn't injure or kill anyone, and didn't leak any more radiation than you get from being outside for a few hours) we've had no problems. People will complain about nuclear waste and not wanting to bury it in the ground in order to avoid air pollution, but they have no problem using catalytic converters to make the air cleaner and bury those in the ground? More people have gotten ill/died in this country from Cats than from nuclear energy.
Though perhaps the most retarded of all is that when someone tries to build a wind farm or a hydroelectric power station, the environmentalists complain that it makes things look ugly, and try to block it's development. They want 0 pollution power, yet every time someone tries to build a 0 polluting power station they block in on environmental concerns?
10-21-2007, 02:49 PM
#14
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 827
RE: E85
well saidthumpin! id agree that there is a lot of potential in alternate fuels...someone just needs to spend time to refine them. one big down side to corn however is its land-neutrient draining abilities. If corn (or any large crop really) is repeatedly planted in the same place, it starts to strip neutrients from the land its on. which leads to a whole lot of repurcusions...but in theory, alt. fuels = good thing.
67mustang...where did you read about the weed in isreal? ive heard about it, but not too much.
67mustang...where did you read about the weed in isreal? ive heard about it, but not too much.
10-21-2007, 08:39 PM
#15
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
RE: E85
My dad told me, he either read it in an online article in an Israeli newspaper, or a magazinemaybe. Apperantly it, up until now, has been little more than an annoying weed for farmers in the region, but the potential for making alcohol based fuels from it appears to be enormous. Whether or not anything will come of it is another issue
10-23-2007, 07:39 PM
#16
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ABQ, NM, USA
Posts: 2,593
10-23-2007, 07:56 PM
#17
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 512
RE: E85
ORIGINAL: THUMPIN455
Spreading that BS over the internet when you actually know nothing about it is no better than some talking head spewing what he is told to say because it makes ratings go up. Infact its worse because if its being said at the grrass roots level like this, then its going to take longer to make the change. Word of mouth does more good or damage than any amount of advertising. So if you dont knwo what you are talking about SHUT UP. Thanks,.
Spreading that BS over the internet when you actually know nothing about it is no better than some talking head spewing what he is told to say because it makes ratings go up. Infact its worse because if its being said at the grrass roots level like this, then its going to take longer to make the change. Word of mouth does more good or damage than any amount of advertising. So if you dont knwo what you are talking about SHUT UP. Thanks,.
Its getting more and more common on here that people seem tojust post to bump up their count. I don't want to say it, but since soaring left, the quality of accurate info has dropped, and whats worse is the number of posters who actually post completely wrong info to guys that are just trying to find things out. It makes thier task twice as hard, and in some cases can cause expensive, and potentially dangerous mistakes.Im not going to name anyone, but please guys, if you don't know the answer, either dont reply, or if you must, in your reply say that you are not sure and that you're guessing.
Cheers.
10-23-2007, 08:14 PM
#18
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 586
RE: E85
I had to do a report on E85 for my 10th grade chemistry like a month ago
All I really remember is that instead of being 100% pro ethanol, or 50/50 for and against, it was some odd numbers like 60 40
More people than you would think are against it
All I really remember is that instead of being 100% pro ethanol, or 50/50 for and against, it was some odd numbers like 60 40
More people than you would think are against it
10-23-2007, 09:23 PM
#19
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location:
Posts: 4,089
RE: E85
E85 is subsidized by the gov't, but they are trying to get a new technology off the ground. A technology that will help the US in the long run.
They also subsidize farming for very good reasons, which are not part of this forum.
I've thought about switching my toys over to E85, mainly because they are high compression. The only issue would be the issues with water condensation. And, of course, the initial cost of the conversion. And the almost complete lack of information for switching a carb'd vehicle.
They also subsidize farming for very good reasons, which are not part of this forum.
I've thought about switching my toys over to E85, mainly because they are high compression. The only issue would be the issues with water condensation. And, of course, the initial cost of the conversion. And the almost complete lack of information for switching a carb'd vehicle.
