paynecasey69

I've been debating my next car purchase for some time now. Part of me would rather have an older Mustang from the 60's rather then get one of the new GT 3v's. However the handling has me concerned even more then its reliability. Mustangs have always been known as straight line only cars. So my questions is simple.

Is their an aftermarket of parts that can assist a 64-73 GT in pulling a .9 + G in cornering?

Are their parts to prevent body roll?

Who sells the best quality parts?

Who sells the best bang for the buck parts?

I'm looking for an excuse to get a GT with a 5.8 liter 4v motor to play with. THe only thing holding me back is, can I get it to handle better then a new stang?

P Zero

If youve got enough money, you can make ANYTHING handle awesome. And yeah the classics were known as straight line cars.
But you can make the 64 1/2-66's handle pretty good. 67/68's not as good. You can make the 69/70's handle good, they were used as trans am race cars. 71-73's are boats, I wouldnt even attempt to get one of those to handle.

You can get a fox to handle AWESOME if you sacrifice A LOT of ride comfort. I cracked the dash in my car bangin out a 90* turn at 60 mph in my '85.
O yeah bracing the frame is priceless in ANY mustang. Itll keep it from twisting up like a pretzel.
-P.
PS: Panhard rods are super important.

superdavid

With enough money, you can get it to handle good. The Jaguar IRS swap is possible, Daze is the guy to talk to about that. There are all kinds of bracings available at low cost also. Mustangs are straight line cars, but with enough mods they will turn too.

Edit:
As far as reliability; I drove my 67 from Texas to California and back.

67 evil eleanor

The Big Block's may be straight liners, but the Small Block can be very fun on the track. The "R" model's ruled in the mid 60's. Sure, they can't compare to todays engineering, but thats part of the fun of it. Money can make it happen, even an IRS in thse old Stangs. Tires are going to be a big part of the "G" force thing. I would not expect a comfortable ride in a track car though.

TexasAxMan

Weren't pretty much all cars straight line only back when they only had bias ply tires? Even early Corvettes didn't handle great, partly due to the technology of the day but mostly due to the crappy tires available back then.

paynecasey69

Thanks for the advice, at least now I know they "can" handle better. When you guys say "as long as you have enough money." What are we talking about 2 to 5 grand or worse?

Can you guys throw some great company website links? So I can get some reading into what is offered.

Norm Peterson

Let me start by saying that 0.9g is just one number, and that all it really indicates is potential capability. Wider, grippier tires on wider wheels, new suspension bushings and pivots (things like balljoints & tierod ends)and a little suspension stiffening - stiffer springs and/or sta-bars (aka anti-sway bars) will probably get you to that number. But since handling is more about how it behaves (and feels) as you push it up there, there's a bit more to it. Actual chassis mods are at least a step higher on the level of commitment,and anything from the Panhard bar to the IRS that have been mentioned fits here.

I'm reluctant to make any absolute statements of "you need such-and-such", because once you dive into suspension re-engineering (which is precisely what you're doing once you reach the point of adding or substituing suspension locating pieces) you eventually realize that every time you change something, you compromise something else. All these things interact with each other to varying degrees. Not that you can't work around changes with either careful parts choice or by your own tuning efforts, just that you frequently have to. In the specific case of combining a PHB with leaf springs, there's a relatively narrow range of height above the groundthat you want the PHB to be within. Otherwise, it will combine with the leaf springs to developrear roll stiffness that you might not have expected(read: loose, can't put power down early on corner exit).

You'll also want to stiffen up the chassis, especially if you intend to open-track it. Or even if you limit your hardest driving toautocross and have done much in the way of suspension mods.

As far as getting it to handle on an S197 level - that's a really tall order. For starters, Ford adapted a 3-link/PHB (arguably the best of the simple rear suspension arrangements) and pushed it through the same sort of in-house development program that would apply to any other new car. Perhaps the 3rd link is a little shorter than optimum- something that I imagine involves safety issues concerning being rear-endedand a middle rear seat passenger. But if you ever get the opportunity towatch Sam Strano or some otherNational-level autocrosser take an S197 around a course sometime you won't be wondering what sort of chassis deficiencies they're up against (you'll be counting the number of trailered-in cars on pure racing slicks that they've beaten instead). I won't tell you that it's impossible to essentially match an S197, but plan on a bit of difficulty, expense,and a lot of test-n-tune to really get it right(and the result probably won't have nearly as friendly of an interior).

FWIW, I find myself in a similar boat. The S197 is on the short list for within a year or so, and there's a '66 in the garage that needs most everything (read: the range of mods is about as wide open as it could possibly be).


Norm

Norm Peterson

Start by tracking down a copy of Fred Puhn's softcover book "How To Make Your Car Handle". That'll get you started on learning how all this stuff works - once you realize what's going on it'll be easier to ask the right questions either here or of any company that you may be about to do business with. Some of the (pricier) suspension kits go several thousand dollars, so a $20 book is a really good investment. It, along with a couple other titles and some engineering/fabrication expertise might just be enough to do up some of the parts yourself if you're at all inclined to DIY.


Norm

andrewmp6

Your wallet is the only limit on handling you can get a 3 link with a watts link for the rear front you can get coilovers that are adjustable with tubular control arms.And theres many ways to stiffen up the unibody.

paynecasey69

Everyone of you guys have been helpful and knowledgable. I'm pretty smart when it comes to "how to produce hp," but once theconversation jumps to suspenion, I'm lost. All I know is Independent rear suspenion is better then Solid rear axle when it comes to handling, and solid rear is better for drag racing. Since the wheels in the back are not sharing the same rotating mass in a IRS setup.

My goal would be for something that handled really good on the back roads with the occasional track and dragstripe. Ride comfert isn't that big of an issue either. Do corner carver cars have more wheel hop during launches then usual cars?
Whats the three point rear people are talking about?
Whats the big difference between coils, shocks, struts, stuff that sounds like it belongs on trucks (leaf springs)?

The one thing I can't stand is body roll, so that would be something I'd look into fixing as well. Wheel hop isn't my favorite either.

I'll try to find the booksand articlesyou guys were talking about too.






I guess I wish I knew the formula to make one handle like a stock C5 Corvette. Then I'd be in love.