408 fired 1st time...UPDATE
01-08-2008, 07:32 PM
#11
5th Gear Member
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
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RE: 408 fired 1st time...then stopped
too shattered to laugh
the car had a "new" engine in it when I bought it. it blew up after 5 laps. that was nearly 3 years ago and with young family and other projects it has taken this long to piece together the parts and the $ to rebuild it (and the gearbox and the wiring and yada yada all the other crap that falls apart when you touch it...we all know about that!)
it was supposed to be finished for the 2nd round of our championship which was last May. Now it will be lucky to start the 2008 season in March. its one thing to get the engine back in and running, then its all the prep work to ensure nothing lets me down. oh...and doing some laps in anger before i race it would probably not be a bad thing either.
I was going to spend the $ on brakes, new tyres and a couple more wheels. Thats just gunna have to wait!!!
the car had a "new" engine in it when I bought it. it blew up after 5 laps. that was nearly 3 years ago and with young family and other projects it has taken this long to piece together the parts and the $ to rebuild it (and the gearbox and the wiring and yada yada all the other crap that falls apart when you touch it...we all know about that!)
it was supposed to be finished for the 2nd round of our championship which was last May. Now it will be lucky to start the 2008 season in March. its one thing to get the engine back in and running, then its all the prep work to ensure nothing lets me down. oh...and doing some laps in anger before i race it would probably not be a bad thing either.
I was going to spend the $ on brakes, new tyres and a couple more wheels. Thats just gunna have to wait!!!
01-08-2008, 07:45 PM
#12
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RE: 408 fired 1st time...then stopped
Cars (engines) can be so unforgiving... a person can get20 out of20big things rightand and 99 out of a 100 little things right and the one "little" thing that is not right jumps up and bites you in the ***.
I never would have even thought that an improperly mounted starter would end up costing so much time and money.
I feel for you brother, I wish I could help you out somehow.
I never would have even thought that an improperly mounted starter would end up costing so much time and money.
I feel for you brother, I wish I could help you out somehow.
01-08-2008, 08:06 PM
#13
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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RE: 408 fired 1st time...then stopped
Dang. That REALLY sucks. I have had a shop screw up my stang before, but not that bad. If I were you, I would have the exhaust guy pay for it, or pursue some legal action, but it sounds like he is kind of a friend of yours or something that you were trying to help out...
01-08-2008, 09:20 PM
#14
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RE: 408 fired 1st time...then stopped
thanks for the thoughts JMD
nineteen - if it were a bigger shop and i had paid full price for the exhaust, i would sue them for sure. Unfortunately, this guy is struggling to get his new business up and running and, even if i did go after him, he probably couldnt pay. I dont feel too comfortable about sending someone bankrupt over $2k. He has pissed me off big time but people make mistakes and **** happens with old cars. Having said that, if i was still in my 20s, he'd be in the hospital now.
I will post him a copy of the final bill and he might just be putting some stainless under the stang next time at his expense.
nineteen - if it were a bigger shop and i had paid full price for the exhaust, i would sue them for sure. Unfortunately, this guy is struggling to get his new business up and running and, even if i did go after him, he probably couldnt pay. I dont feel too comfortable about sending someone bankrupt over $2k. He has pissed me off big time but people make mistakes and **** happens with old cars. Having said that, if i was still in my 20s, he'd be in the hospital now.
I will post him a copy of the final bill and he might just be putting some stainless under the stang next time at his expense.
01-08-2008, 10:43 PM
#16
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RE: 408 fired 1st time...then stopped
spot on, flying.
when @ssholes do @sshole things, they deserve to be punished without mercy.
when a good guy trying to make a buck makes a mistake...well, what do you do? I dont think he has comprehended the damage yet even tho i told him. Some major apologising and sucking up on his part would help to ease the pain
when @ssholes do @sshole things, they deserve to be punished without mercy.
when a good guy trying to make a buck makes a mistake...well, what do you do? I dont think he has comprehended the damage yet even tho i told him. Some major apologising and sucking up on his part would help to ease the pain
01-09-2008, 06:45 AM
#17
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 138
RE: 408 fired 1st time...then stopped
^good attitude. sigh. I feel for you, brother.
Should not the starter shaft sheared first? Check the design specs - perhaps some consideration from the starter company for a defective shear shaft (if equipped)... Not that you can blame the engine on them due to poor installation - just the shaft not shearing and some $$ maybe... maybe just a replacement starter...
Should not the starter shaft sheared first? Check the design specs - perhaps some consideration from the starter company for a defective shear shaft (if equipped)... Not that you can blame the engine on them due to poor installation - just the shaft not shearing and some $$ maybe... maybe just a replacement starter...
01-09-2008, 06:23 PM
#18
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RE: 408 fired 1st time...then stopped
I initially thought the starter should shear first too, but in reality that shaft has to be strong and the starter motor itself also just to turn over the engine in order to fire.
by jamming, all it has done is pushed the crank over by a thou or 2 enough to pinch a bearing...its like the crank is effectively floating in oil and this just pushed it to edge. so little actual movement, but enough to damage stuff.
btw, I have cooled off today and ordered a new flywheel. tomorrow night i am going down there to pull the engine out. We'll have a good look at the starter - if the shaft is not bent it may be ok. here's to fingers crossed and thanks all for the sympathy...it could have been worse i spose.
cheers
Ben
by jamming, all it has done is pushed the crank over by a thou or 2 enough to pinch a bearing...its like the crank is effectively floating in oil and this just pushed it to edge. so little actual movement, but enough to damage stuff.
btw, I have cooled off today and ordered a new flywheel. tomorrow night i am going down there to pull the engine out. We'll have a good look at the starter - if the shaft is not bent it may be ok. here's to fingers crossed and thanks all for the sympathy...it could have been worse i spose.
cheers
Ben
01-09-2008, 06:52 PM
#19
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RE: 408 fired 1st time...then stopped
I'm sorry to hear.
By way of a little tech, all the starter shaft needed to do was cause the crank to deflect a couple of thousandths of an inch and destroy the oil film. It's possible that the damage was done before the oil supply at the bearing was even up to full pressure.
Sometimes it doesn't take much to trash a freshly rebuilt motor. Years ago I had just swapped a 2.8L V6 out of a Mustang II into the Pinto that we had at the time (our only car, actually). Since the conditionof the motor was uncertain, Ioverhauled it before installing it. I'd primed the pump and made sure that it had at least filled the filter and passages. It took a couple of cranks to get it to fire, so the oil pressure wasn't exactly nil- but straightaway to 5000 rpm it went and stayed there for a few seconds until I could shut it down. Something had snagged the throttle cable (I forget what, exactly) and held it open partway. The noise from down low inside didn't start for a few miles. Only one moron on that one.
Norm
By way of a little tech, all the starter shaft needed to do was cause the crank to deflect a couple of thousandths of an inch and destroy the oil film. It's possible that the damage was done before the oil supply at the bearing was even up to full pressure.
Sometimes it doesn't take much to trash a freshly rebuilt motor. Years ago I had just swapped a 2.8L V6 out of a Mustang II into the Pinto that we had at the time (our only car, actually). Since the conditionof the motor was uncertain, Ioverhauled it before installing it. I'd primed the pump and made sure that it had at least filled the filter and passages. It took a couple of cranks to get it to fire, so the oil pressure wasn't exactly nil- but straightaway to 5000 rpm it went and stayed there for a few seconds until I could shut it down. Something had snagged the throttle cable (I forget what, exactly) and held it open partway. The noise from down low inside didn't start for a few miles. Only one moron on that one.
Norm
01-09-2008, 07:26 PM
#20
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RE: 408 fired 1st time...then stopped
thanks Norm
everything was primed and it started at low revs and ran for a second or 2, so some oil hopefully got to the bearings. There was no noise at thatstage.
It was only when the revs were brought up that the starter protested at being asked to spin that fast.
Still cant believethe starterwas that strong...why didnt the starter shaft bend or break or some other internal on the starter crap out? It broke 3 teeth clean off the flywheel and damaged a heap more!
everything was primed and it started at low revs and ran for a second or 2, so some oil hopefully got to the bearings. There was no noise at thatstage.
It was only when the revs were brought up that the starter protested at being asked to spin that fast.
Still cant believethe starterwas that strong...why didnt the starter shaft bend or break or some other internal on the starter crap out? It broke 3 teeth clean off the flywheel and damaged a heap more!