67fastbackshell

I'm starting to get ideas about how i want to tackle the front end replacement. This weekend i am giong to finish up the taillamp and rocker replacement/ repairs and then i will be ready to remove the cowl.

Here is what will be replaced

1. The cowl panel
2. the Firewall-it looked good initially, but has a few patches and some pin holes
3. Both full front frame rails/shock towers/apron assemlies and radiator support. The radiator support was good, but someone cut it with a torch to remove the brackets. The left frame rail is good at the rear, but the front is gone, so why not replace the whole thing while i'm at it. The passenger side is worse off due to being wrecked and then welded back together-the entire assembly will be replaced on this side as well. The replacement cowl panel isa one piece unit and is ready to drop in.
4. Front floor support rails.

And that's it for now. It's really weird how some of the metal on this car is absolutely perfect and other sections are ruined. Odd.

Anyway, due to the way everything welds together it looks like i should replace it all at once. However, that brings up the topic of the body twisting again. I'm worried that without some sort of support that i will put the car back together crooked.
In addition, i am extremely worried about welding the frame rail/shock tower/apron assemblies back onto the new firewall once it is installed. I want this car to go together perfect. I ordered every assembly manual the other day, but i havent had a great deal of time to look through it yet. Are there measurements in the body or weld manual that will show where i should weld the frame rails??

Any tips on how to keep the rails straight and level while welding??
I'd love to hear from somebody who has replaced their front assemblies.

Thanks
Chris

davesanborn

Chris,

IMO, if you remove the entire front clip all at once, you're screwed.

Here is how I've done it. There may be better ways to get the same results, but I haven't found them.

Using your new body assembly manual, make sure that your existing front structural members are straight and aligned before you do anything else.

Once you're certain that everything is within factory spec., break all of the welds on ONE FRAME RAIL and remove just this piece. Leave the other frame rail in position, andleave all of the aprons and radiator support in position also.

Install the new replacement frame rail with tack welds initially. Tack it at the rear and to the front radiator support crossmember. When you're certain that it's in it's proper position. Put a couple good welds on the front and rear ends. Don't weld the old aprons to the side of the new frame rail.

Move to the the other side and replace the other frame rail in the same manner.

Take some measurement of the front frame rail area and then remove the radiator support. Install a new radiator support.

With the frame rails and radiator support now replaced, move to one side of the car and remove the aprons/shocktower. Install new aprons/shock tower.

Then do the same for the other side of the car.


Have you consdiered purchasing the one piece frame rail/shock tower/apron pieces?

NPD sells them... PN 16054-2b is an example.

If you use these pieces, my instructions need to be modified a little, bit you get the idea.

Dave

zmetalmilitia

This is how I replaced mine as well. This will give reference points to measure from. If you remove everything, what is your reference? Unless you have a jig or have done this many times and know what to look for, how will you know it is going in correctly? It may look right, but when you go to install suspension components, they don't align right then your in for serious trouble. I replaced one piece at a time, measuring, removing, and installing--measuring many times along the way. You cannot measure enough times to make sure it is done right.

RobR

I just bought a 67 Fastback in Ohio and am working on getting it shipped to my house in Washington. I will be going through the same thing as some point, I will be replacing most of the front end and frame rails, the trunk floor and frame rails, and patching the fenders and doors. Holy cow! I think I need to build another garage in the back yard to handle this project. I intend to get the car off the ground and level and measure everything before tearing into it. I think that is a great way to do it, one piece at a time to make sure that the alignment stays straight.

Rob

AV8ForFun

Since you don't have a front clip to work with you might try to contact these guys for measurements onthe jig they built.

http://blogs.mustangandfords.com/622...els/index.html

This is their website.

http://www.krpandr.com/

Or you can find a '67 and make these measurements.



[IMG]local://upfiles/46913/885A899C10154038A192DA3BA01C02F3.jpg[/IMG]

67fastbackshell

Dont i need to take both front frame/apron/shock tower assemblies off i want to replace the firewall??


Technically the drivers side is in good shape and just needs frame rails. The passenger side shock tower has either been replaced or repaired. it is still in good condition though. The rear apron needs to be replaced due to rust at the top. However, the firewall looks weak on the passenger side-pin holes and then rotten at the bottom where standing water hung out. I can patch it and then use figerglass to reinforce the middle part of the firewall technically, but do i really want to do that??? This isnt going to be a show car. It is going to be nice, but im not going to put mirrors underneath of it. So, i want the floorboards to be sturdy and look nice, but they dont have to be perfect. The firewall is solid from mid section up.

If the shock tower is straight on the passenger side i can just get away with replacing the inner and outer frame rails and the rear apron.

Does anybody sell theinner and outerframe assemblies welded together already??


1. So, if i tackle this one piece at a time and dont need to remove the firewall, then i guess i should start with the floor pan supports. Tac weld them in and then replace the front floor pans with the additional metal for the firewall.

2. Next, finish welding up the floor supports to the new floor pans.

3. Front outer and inner frame rails drivers side

4. Front outer and inner frame rails passenger side

5. Radiator support

6. Cowl panel

7. Aprons

8. Have car dipped and e coatedthen fiberglass the hell out of the inside of the firewall.

does that sound good??


Option 2 see if dynacore will make and sell me a jig

davesanborn

If your firewall has pin-holes in it, it's a safe assumption that the original metal has thinned.... a lot.... to the point that there are, well, "pin-holes" in the metal.This is pretty thin.

I don't recommend FG for any structural part of a unibody car. The firewall, although primarily thought of as a barrier between the engine compartment and interior alsoserves to tie the unibodies framerails together.

Can the weak metal of the firwall be removed in "sections" and pieces of a new firewall be welded in to replace the damaged/weakened areas? This would be much better thanfiberglassing the firewall.

Yep, just make sure you know what a"solid" shock tower looks like. Yours may look great... but compared to what? The rotted out frame-rails? Or new shock towers?

Understand this.... shock towers on a classic Mustang are probably the weakest link of the entire front suspension.... maybe the entire car. They're prone to bending/twisting/sagging and commonly develop closed micro-cracks that eventually develop into open cracks that you could stick a pencil through.Ford added the export braces to help deflect some of the stress away from the shock towers and onto the more rigid cowl. Shelby went to a one-piece export brace because he felt it would further strengthen the shock towers. Shelby also added the Monte Carlo bar to further assist in stabilizing the shock towers. Ford re-inforced the shock towers of BB and later Boss cars. Do you see a pattern here? The shock towers take a lot of punishment with the factoryFalcon style front suspension system. Make damn sure your shock towers are in "perfect condition" before you decide not to fix/replace them. At a minumum, I recommend looking at installing some shock tower reinforcements that can be welded in to helpminimize the normal "flex".

I haven't seen any.

Good Luck,
Dave

67fastbackshell

Thanks Dave-that is really helpful.

I just emailed Dynacorn to see if they will build and sell me a jig-perhaps they will, but perhaps not. So, if i decide to replace the firewall in segment-three pieces i suppose-upper full section, followed by lower two halves, then i guess i should start with the cowl and upper firewall and work my way down. Once the cowl is done i can replace the right frame rail and firewall, and when that is finished do the drivers frame rail. I think i will just replace the entire sides with the new already put together frame/apron/shock tower assemblies. While i am at it i will purchase the shock tower reinforcements and weld them into place. Where can i buy those??
I should, still end up with a shell that only ends up costing around 8,000 plus the cost of a jig if i get one. However, there are always more surprises and i am sure that will not be the total tally-just a guestimate right now. It's still a lot cheaper than 15,500 plus shipping for a dynacore that has no VIN.

john721

As everyone else has stated, do one side at a time. Based on your photos, I would do my framework first, one side at a time. I would then address the firewall/cowl. (I would have purchased the cowl pieces seperately so I could coat the inside with something other than the primer it was ent with). Look closely at the pic I am sending. I first insured that the car was supported, and even welded angle-iron from one rocker to the other so it could be supported that way. Once I knew I had it where it wouldn't be disturbed by me hacking out the firewall/cowl sides, etc, I began. It was a long day, but I was able to remove the firewall and cowl sides, prep the frame extensions and trans tunnel support, and reinstall in a day. Once the firewall was back in place, the car regained it's support.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...removed2-1.jpg

67fastbackshell

So you took out the firewall, welded in the supports, then took out the cowl assembly. correct??



My car is going to be dipped and ecoated, so primer on the inside of the cowl will not be necessary.

I found a place that is going to send me their plans for a jig. I will then take those plans to a local welder and have him fab up the jig.



Which assembly manual are the frame measurement in and where are they located?? I cant find them.

Thanks
Chris