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New/old 67 convertible project....

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Old 03-22-2009, 05:23 AM   #1
EZFEED
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Red face New/old 67 convertible project....

Hey guys I need some advice and help with a project that I've shelved for about 7 years now. Here is the info on the car:
http://mustangforums.com/forum/new-m...ml#post6046596

Now have any of you done a floor pan and rocker job before? This is what I'm undertaking.
If you've changed out full rockers, pans, etc then any advice you give I'd appreciate. I was thinking about taking it to a shop and having them do the repair but the more I look at it the more it seems that I can do this. I also would be happy to forgo the $3,000 cost of them doing this job. I have all new sheetmetal that I purchased from NPD and I want to sell the two full pans I bought from them and buy the full one piece pan with the tunnel and all thats thicker gauge. (if any of you need pans for a 67-68(maybe 65-66 will fit too?) then I'll make you a deal)

Please chime in guys and let me know your experience/advice. I will try and get some pics up later today or so.
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Old 03-22-2009, 08:41 AM   #2
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EZ, welcome to the forum!

Replacing the entire floor pan on a convertible is one of the most difficult mustang sheet metal projects. Not to turn you off to the job, but it with the inner/outer rockers is basically the frame of the car. Unless you are very handy with a mig welder, experienced at this kind of work (appears you may be), and have a lot of time you may want to farm this one out. Particularly if you got the car for $1,000. Another $3,000 is still a spectactular deal.

If you plan to proceed yourself, my advice is to replace the rockers first. Take detailed measurements of door openings, diagonals across the interior, and other dimensions. Record these on a table and each time you remove and replace a component take all the measurements again and record them in the table. You will need to brace the car (weld steel tubing in place to lock the rest of the sheet metal in position) and remove as much stress from the chassis as possible prior to removing the rockers and do one side at a time. Kind of like in home construction when you remove a load bearing wall, you have to build a temporary support structure.

Once braced and suspended properly, remove the inner and outer rocker from one side as a unit. Get the fully assembled rocker that is prewelded and weld the new rocker in place front and back, but not to the floor. Repeat on the other side and then remove the floor and weld the new one in place. If you braced everything and maintained your measurements, you should be good to go. Of course, this assumes you didn't have any saggin of the body from the rust damage.

Good luck and post a lot of pictures.
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Old 03-22-2009, 09:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fakesnakes View Post
EZ, welcome to the forum!

Replacing the entire floor pan on a convertible is one of the most difficult mustang sheet metal projects. Not to turn you off to the job, but it with the inner/outer rockers is basically the frame of the car. Unless you are very handy with a mig welder, experienced at this kind of work (appears you may be), and have a lot of time you may want to farm this one out. Particularly if you got the car for $1,000. Another $3,000 is still a spectactular deal.

If you plan to proceed yourself, my advice is to replace the rockers first. Take detailed measurements of door openings, diagonals across the interior, and other dimensions. Record these on a table and each time you remove and replace a component take all the measurements again and record them in the table. You will need to brace the car (weld steel tubing in place to lock the rest of the sheet metal in position) and remove as much stress from the chassis as possible prior to removing the rockers and do one side at a time. Kind of like in home construction when you remove a load bearing wall, you have to build a temporary support structure.

Once braced and suspended properly, remove the inner and outer rocker from one side as a unit. Get the fully assembled rocker that is prewelded and weld the new rocker in place front and back, but not to the floor. Repeat on the other side and then remove the floor and weld the new one in place. If you braced everything and maintained your measurements, you should be good to go. Of course, this assumes you didn't have any saggin of the body from the rust damage.

Good luck and post a lot of pictures.
Thanks Fakesnakes! Hey.....dont I know you from somewhere? You look familiar and your username seems it too. Are you on one of the gun boards that I'm on???? If not my apologies!

Well I do know my way around a MIG and I have done some fab work but nothing this complex. Also I dont have a MIG in my shop but a regular stick welder but I can use it and am pretty good atc spot welding with it. I dont know if there is any reason I cant use it but if so I could borrow a MIG if needs be.

One thing is I did buy the inner and outer rockers as full length one piece units. I'm also planning onselling the two piece floor pans that I have and going with the one piece heavy gauge unit that NPD sells.

I have some angle iron crossmembers welded across the doors to prevent flexing. Would I need to build stands or something to set the car on? I was thinking of removing the rear wheels and chocking up that part with the axle still in place then remove the front and chock that side up as well.

From there replace the passenger rocker unit and then do the other side. But then heres the thing. How about the torque boxes? How do these come out and where does it contact the floor pan and become the toe panel? Also I am not quite sure how much sagging has taken place over the years. Is there a book of dimensions somewhere or can someone give me measurments? How about that body manual that NPD sells? Is that any help????

Should I go with the doorjamb and doors as a guide? I'm wondering how much sagging has affected those.

Sorry I didn't get pics today, I will try and get some tomorrow.
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Old 03-22-2009, 10:02 PM   #4
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Old 03-22-2009, 10:48 PM   #5
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AMEN!!!!!
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Old 03-22-2009, 10:53 PM   #6
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or this:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ndvideo013.flv
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:15 PM   #7
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AMEN!!!!

Maybe I can fab up a pedestal mount in my pony and mount my 1919A4 in and have the best of both worlds!
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:48 AM   #8
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Old 03-23-2009, 01:35 PM   #9
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fakesnakes has it pretty well covered, i am gonna go get something to eat, then ill sit down and explain this to ya =P
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Old 03-23-2009, 03:23 PM   #10
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ok
-First Step
*Prepping for Removal of Inner Rocker Panels*
To remove the inner rocker panels first you must thoroughly brace the car because these are the main support of the car, this means taking the car off any of it suspension and supporting it levelly with four jack stands, best places for these are just fore of the leaf spring shackles, and just fore of the front torque boxes, this puts equal pressure and "balances weight" off of the rocker panel. Next, you will want to install a door brace, these can be made or easy had from cj pony parts for just over $200, normally this is over kill if properly supported, BUT, since your are doing a full floor and tunnel you have to do both sides at once, and its is a MUST...

Shown Here is a Brace you would need if you weren't replacing the tunnel, available at cjponyparts.com
Click the image to open in full size.

But since you are replacing the tunnel, you will need to find or make a set like these
Click the image to open in full size.
or....
These would be best for you
Click the image to open in full size.
^ These are available at http://www.accessiblesystems.com/udb.php

If you feel like I am dwelling on these braces, you are mistaken because they will maintain integrity of your car, I failed to use these the first time around, and my doors no longer fit... and had to re-do a lot of work.

-Step Two
*Removing Inner Rocker Panels*
First you will have to acquire many 3/8" drill bits, a reliable drill, an air chisel with various metal cutting bits.. you'll need it,
there are well over 300 spot welds that have to be drilled out to remove what were once inner rocker panels, fairly self explanatory but a few pointers are to start with the seat riser, this is a large majority of spot welds, get that up, then move along to cutting the bulk of the floor up and gradually drilling the spot welds that keep it down to the various frame bits. Now that the seat riser and the floor is out, start drilling along the row of spot welds top and bottom holding the inner rocker in, also under your fenders, on the torque box, there is a tab of inner rocker bent over and welded. Now is also a GREAT time to replace toque boxes if they look the least bit shoddy. Also removing the torque boxes makes the job quite a bit easier. so once you have the inner rockers and optionally the torque boxes out, move on to the next step.

-Step Three
*Install Floor Pan*
Yup, this comes before the rocker panel, because of the pans directly under where the seat riser were, the lip on the floor pan tucks over that, then the rocker goes between that lip and the outer rocker panel. then can be welded together, my floors did not include the tunnel so I am not much help here. But there is plenty of info available for replacing floors, onwards...

-Step Four
*Installing New Rocker Panels*
Before even putting them in place drill holes about every one inch, you can use the 3/8" from earlier, or slighter small if you wish, if you chose to go smaller, place them 7/8" from each other, now if you have the torque boxes out you cant slide them in from the front and get them to where you need, if not, well I'm actually not sure what to tell you =/, get this all welded up, put your torque boxes back on, finish up any welds for the floors, and be glad you finished before your 90th birthday =P

This is not for the faint of heart, and if you do not have the skill, time, will, motivation, tools, space, and devotion to do this, it may be better off left to the professionals....

Please PM with any questions, i got lazy towards the end of this, but you lucky i made it this far, any one on here knows I am not one for long responses like these =P, oh well another convertible fan is a friend of mine....
heres some more on inner rockers
http://www.midcomustang.com/frameandfloor.shtml

Oh yeah one more thing, i couldn't have written this without listening to The Who so this is to them.Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 03-23-2009, 03:27 PM   #11
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whew, that was a biggie, this ones for my post count...
cause above was well worth more than 1 LOL
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:10 PM   #12
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Thank you very much Joe67!!!!!!

Well now I see what I need in bracing. Let me ask you this, you explain this with only replacing your inner rockers, how about if you were going to replace your inners and outers too???? Would it be possible to replace the whole assemblies one at a time?
Also I'm going to have to replace the torque boxes too, pretty much everything under the car....and I have it already, I have enough replacment sheetmetal parts to do the whole undercarriage if needs be.

My outer rockers are so-so. I mean they are rusted, moslty just the undersides but they are strong enough to hold the car up. If there was a repair patch panel that just took care of the bottom edge then I guess I would be OK but then why do all that when I can replace the whole assembly with the new one piece inner and outer unit????? I do have both sides.

As far as the tunnel goes, maybe I can save it? I have pics here and I'll let you make that decision since you've undergone this.

Here are some pics. Hard to believe this was once a show car eh?

Here is a pic of the panel behind the rear seat. As you can see it was an original red car. Also the shetmetal above the seats is 100%. Also the top is hydraulic and in perfect shape. No leaks and puts the top up and down really quick.
Click the image to open in full size.
This is looking down in the right corner of the rocker area behind where the quarter panel trim upholstery would go. You can see the hole just behind the cylinder.
Click the image to open in full size.
Here is standing back at the location of the above pic. As you can see I have cut allot of the old metal out to asses the situation.
Click the image to open in full size.
Here is the only damage to the tunnel. Its kinda thin right here.
Click the image to open in full size.
Under the rear seat. Really this area isn't too bad and is quite solid with only minimal surface rust on the underside. I could almost save this if it doesn't get torn up doing the rockers. You can see the line where the old wet under pad rusted the pan and left this.
Click the image to open in full size.
This is looking at the inside of the outer rocker just under the front of the drivers door. (The dark gray object is a demilled 20mm Oerlikon for another project so please disregard).
Click the image to open in full size.
Larger view of the same area above. I spot welded that brace in for transit.
Click the image to open in full size.
Here is looking down on the passenger side sill. As you can see, the topside sheetmetal on down to an inch above the bottom lip of the outer rocker is solid. Its solid enough that it survived the bumpy road trip from NJ to LA on a trailer. It's solid enough that I can drive the car around (back before I took it apart) and not affect door function.
Click the image to open in full size.
Engine compartment passenger side.
Click the image to open in full size.
Front passenger rocker.
Click the image to open in full size.
Underside of passenger side torque box.
Click the image to open in full size.
Drivers side engine compartment.
Click the image to open in full size.
Pretty much self explanatory pic. Before I loaded it on the trailer in NJ I sprayed some rust inhibiting primer over the top edges of the body as you see because there was some light scattered surface rust, just the fuzzy stuff, and I wanted to seal it out. It was painted a maroon sort of burgundy color.
Click the image to open in full size.
Kinda cramped in this corner of my shop, I have this car, the model T, my Czech truck, and the turret with 30mm cannons all crammed back here. I've been working on tractors.
Click the image to open in full size.
I have this little bit of rust through at the base of each windsheild pillar, cant figure out how this got here???
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by EZFEED; 03-23-2009 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:11 PM   #13
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Front underside of the drivers rocker.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Drivers torque box and subframe rail.
Click the image to open in full size.
Former paint still shiney.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Drivers toeboard. I didn't quite get everything gutted on this side yet as you can see.
Click the image to open in full size.
Inside of the drivers side rocker. This is the worst side of the car.
Click the image to open in full size.
I pulled most everything out. I do plan on replacing the cowls too and have complete cowl assemblies.
The old man never fixed this and the son didn't always put the plexiglass cover over the vent when he took it out. Still the tree branch finished the job.
Click the image to open in full size.
Here is a pic of the damage in the rear of the tunnel. It's pretty isolated and only about 10" around the hole. The old undercoat helped a bit.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Here's a spot on the inside of the drivers rear wheel well.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Sorry bout the pic quality guys. Also its got quite a bit of dust on it from the near 7 years of storage at another place that I had it at. Also I forgot to get the numbers on the data plate in the drivers door! Sorry will get it later!

Heres my inventory of parts for this.

Full length floor pans X2
Full length rockers inner/outer/with front extension X2
Reinforcement, floor pan seat X2
Complete torque box X2
Floor support frame extension X2
Toe board X2 (Dont know if I need these or not?)
Bracket parking brake idler X1
Bracket parking brake lever X1

Then I also have a set of inner rockers by themselves, and some other misc patch panels that I may not need.
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:38 PM   #14
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Oh, also......the car has the turn signal hood and I was wondering if there are any repro lamps made that I can replace the old factory units with? Mine are literally falling apart.
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:48 AM   #15
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Oh, something else.

I was told that no matter what, dont move the top because I will use it to set the measurments? I wouldnt think this would make a difference.
Could someone provide me with exact measurements of the door jam openings? Is there a book somewhere that I can find dimensions like these?
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Old 03-24-2009, 06:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZFEED View Post
Oh, also......the car has the turn signal hood and I was wondering if there are any repro lamps made that I can replace the old factory units with? Mine are literally falling apart.
If you look on mustangsunlimited.com and type in hood mounted in the search you should find everything, but the grille inserts.

Grille inserts - http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/ite...sp?T1=F1754+01
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:33 PM   #17
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Thank you very much BA!!!! I just ordered it and the LED upgrade as well! Thanks! That was the last part I needed for the car, I already have all of the rest and I dont think they made this part back when I bought them.

So anyone have any opinions on what to do with it? Is this project even worth it or is this too far gone?
Should I put whole new rockers in or just put the inners in? And if the inners then what would you guys do with the lower edge of the original outer?
I dont see any lower rocker edge skins available that I could patch in unless I bought complete outer skins and cut a section out of each. If I did that then why not go ahead and put the whole new ones in because I'd be putting them against the new inner?

I'm kind of on a teeter totter on this but because of my lack of knowledge on what is required structurally for these cars I am not sure exactly what should and should not be saved. This is a fairly big project for me but I'm 99% sure I can do it.
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:00 PM   #18
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Anyone?
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1976 PLDvK 53/59 (one of three in the U.S.)
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:06 PM   #19
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Doesn't seem like it is too bad to repair. Will be a fun car once it is finished. Do you plan on original exterior or modding the suspension and putting bullitts or TT rims on?
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:11 PM   #20
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That car is pretty ate up but its just metal and it can all be replaced. The repop panels are pretty cheap but its a lot of work. I replaced every piece of the floor and frame from the tail light panel to the radiator (not stock though).
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:11 PM
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