ninteen66mustang

(((A quick update for those that remember me posting in the past, and those wondering about the rest of the car. I have all gotten new suspension and brakes since I last posted. Power brakes, discs in the front, new drums in back. UCA drop, 1" lowering springs, 4.5 leaf mideye leafsprings, kyb's all around, upgraded sway bar, new flaming river quick ratio steering box, and a few other bits and pieces.)))

Now, on to the topic of the post.

I am interested in this engine that is for sale. It is a rebuilt 302 that comes with a rebuilt c4 transmission (built to stock with better quality parts). The seller says it put 300hp/327tq to the wheels in his '73 stang. It is currently out of the car, but he said he would put it back in so I can hear it run. Here are the details:



Built 302 and newly rebuilt c4 trany-$3000/Firm. Over $4000 in parts alone not to mention labor and Dyno tuning. Would consider trades so let me know what you got. engine and trany are in a 73 mustang currently. car ran a 13.27 1/4 at sacramento speedway two weeks ago. engine has lots of extras:

Forged Crank
Forged Rods
9:1 Compression Pistons
Ported Heads (exhaust side polished)
Mallory Unilite Electronic Ignition Distributor
Full Mechanical Advance
Mallory Power Cell
Mallory Ignition Coil
MSD 8.5MM Super Conductor Wires
Barry Grant Speed Demon 650cfm Carburetor
Edelbrock Performer Dual Plane Intake Manifold (Port matched to heads)
Edelbrock performer-Plus Cam
Duration 270 In/280 EX
Lift .448 In/.472 Ex
@ 050 Inch Lift
Edelbrock air Cleaner Assembly
K&N Air Cleaner
Flowmaster Headers
Trans-Dap Performance Chrome Finned Transmission Pan
And New Water pump, oil pump ect...

I asked for details of the rebuild. He said it was magnafluxed, bored 40 over, hot honed, main caps line honed, lifter valley polished, oil passages chamfered, water passages ported for better flow, heads ported and polished, and clevite bearings installed. I'm not sure what some of that means, but it sounds like a quality rebuild to me.

The seller said he built it to handle a 150 shot of nitrous, thats why it has forged internals and everything.

This sounds like a good deal to me, but what do you think? Should I get the engine and transmission for $3k?

Thanks for the help in advance.

stangtjk

Sounds like a good deal to me. I paid $2200 for a pos reman engine, wont be doing that again.

htwheelz67

the cam is way small and I would question why someone would build a forged engine with ported heads that should be able to turn 7k easily and put in a performer cam which is 204-214 448 472 @0.50 which will poop out at 4800 rpm.......I would question if it really is what is stated. No professional engine builder or even backyard engine builder would go to the expense of forged crank/rods and port the heads, port match the intake and kill it all with a cam that is best in a stock engine in a heavy vehicle........that cam with all the good stuff makes me wonder. Kinda like putting cheap skinny passenger car tires on a cobra.........doesn't make sense.

I would have him pull the oil pan, and see for yourself, a forged crank will have scat,eagle,chp or cat pt numbers right where the flexplate/flywheel bolts on.

If all checks out to be true ( I highly doubt it) buy it and ditch that cam and get one that will work together with the other componenents. The rwhp rating that he claims out of that eng with those components is absolute BS......the flywheel hp should be about 260 maybe 275 an thats pushing it. My prior 351w with TW heads, bigger hyd roller cam and way more lift, rpm int and demon 650 thru a c-4 in my 67 made 285 rwhp on the dyno after lots of tuning. I can see overbuilding for n20 but even a stocker can handle 125-150 shot without too much problem. unless the rwhp and 1/4 mile was with n20 the guy is full of it.

fakesnakes

While the cam is small, I can see the logic if it was built for a 150 NOS shot. Strong internals on a driver you can take anywhere that becomes semi-beastly at the track with a little juice.

I'm always torn on these situations and here's why. On one hand, he is trying to help you understand the performance of the engine by sharing track numbers. On the other hand, I don't want to buy an engine that has been abused at the track. On one hand, he may have gotten a taste of competition and needs more speed immediately and will make you a great deal on a decent engine so he can upgrade. On the other hand, he may have beat it, has seen the power drop off slightly and wants to dump it before it grenades. On one hand, you could be getting a super deal. On the other hand, you could be buying someone elses problems.

Make sure you hear it run. On one hand, he may actually put it back in the car and you hear it and buy it. On the other hand, he may be hoping you don't make him go through the hassle and if you ask him he then has to say no. At least then you will have the answer.

ninteen66mustang

I forgot to mention the nitrous. He said it was built for a 150 shot. If I buy it I might change the cam. Although I will take it to the track occasionally, I am mainly looking for a street car. Would it be more reliable this way, though? (I don't really understand cams or anything)

Thanks for the other tips. I will definitely have him put it back in the car, and hopefully even take me for a ride so I can feel how strong it is. If he agrees I will pull the oil pan so I can check the crank. What exactly would I be looking for? Is there anything else I can check to ensure he is being honest?

I asked about paperwork for the rebuild, and he said he is still unpacking (he just moved from cali) but he has paperwork to prove the rebuild.

I will ask about the abuse, that is a good point. He said there are a total of 932 miles since the rebuild with 500 of them coming from the dyno break in. The car he had it in sounds like kind of a beater, so I doubt he was serious about racing it.

htwheelz67- why do you think the 1/4 mile time he gave is BS? He said his car weights 3250 lbs with him in it (Its missing some seats and stuff) and when I use the hp estimator on dragtimes, assuming about a 110 mph trap speed, it puts out 306.

Thanks for the help everyone.

htwheelz67

my best run with my 351w at sea level was 13.40 in a much lighter car with much more hp, unless he is running super steep gears I cant see it especially in a 73, mine is a 67 vert. That cam will not run fast in the 1/4 in a heavy 73 even with steep gears its a total mismatch. In that weight class it should run mid-high 15's, but if the n20 is in the factor the 1/4 mile sounds believable. I am sorry but a 73 with a 302 with ported heads,9.1 compression, a performer intake and cam and a 650 speed demon (way much for that) needs a road demon as a speed demon 650 flows more like 780 cfm.....runs 13.27. The rwhp/tq numbers are more like a warmed up 351w with ported heads and at the flywheel. I am sorry but there is no way. Maybe with a 4.10 gear and a heavy tailwind going down hill you can hit the high 13's by luck but not likely. I think his numbers are with the 150 shot of n20........that makes perfect sense except torque should be more.

ninteen66mustang

Well, I can use my 'butt dyno' to determine if the engine has enough power when he puts it in the car.

Other then that, what do you guys think? Is it a good deal or what?

htwheelz67

4000.00 in parts sounds like BS as well, I built my 408 stroker for around 5200.00 includinig machine work,cnc porting my TW heads, custom hyd roller and new everything. Maybe, but I' offer him 2500.00 after him proving all is true, for 3k you could get a nice 5.0 roller shortblock with cam an top it off with some TW heads and it would have more power....

Starfury

I'm with htwheelz on this one. He may have money into it, but it's not as mean as he claims. There's no way he's making that kind of power with that compression and that cam. Plus, it's been raced, so who knows how it's been abused.

There are better deals out there, if you can't talk him down.

ninteen66mustang

This is easily the cheapest engine I have seen that is even close to the power I want. If you know where to find something better, feel free to point me in the right direction.