thinking about wideband O2
05-10-2009, 11:10 AM
#12
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05-10-2009, 03:18 PM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cork, Ireland
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Euros are stronger until customs gets their hands on it *lol*
The reason I'm buying in the states is simply I can't get it anywhere else. If someone in Europe sells that they imported from the states and I don't see why I should pay someone else for doing that ;-)
I've been watching the course of the dollar for the last 3 years since I bought the car and it's just back to what it was. so clearly not worthless. The english pound is in trouble at the moment, which is great for me as well if I need buying from there
The reason I'm buying in the states is simply I can't get it anywhere else. If someone in Europe sells that they imported from the states and I don't see why I should pay someone else for doing that ;-)
I've been watching the course of the dollar for the last 3 years since I bought the car and it's just back to what it was. so clearly not worthless. The english pound is in trouble at the moment, which is great for me as well if I need buying from there
05-10-2009, 04:25 PM
#16
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Location: California
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Those plug readers you listed are handy to have(I have the Moroso one) but the problem is they only let you see the insulator tip, electrode, threads and ground strap. That's all good, because they tell you important things(you learn what as you learn to read plugs, heat, timing, idle mix etc), but to get WOT AFR you are looking for a fuel ring at the very base of the insulator where it melds into the plug body, way down inside where you need the high dollar plug readers to see well(the ones that look like a doctor's ear scope). If your eyes are good enough, you know what to look for and the plugs allow you can look way down at the bottom with the naked eye and something like a high intensity tiny LED flashlight(which is what I do). But using the good scopes is a lot easier and you don't get eye strain(when I have the chance to borrow someone else's).
And yes, AFR from bank to bank can be different and there is no hard and fast rule that says you have to jet every barrel the same etc. If you have flow balance issues with an intake that disrupt the AFR enough, you can read each individual plug and determine which cylinders are rich/lean, trace that runner back to the nearest carb barrel and tune accordingly. In real world tuning you may end up with differing jets and air bleeds on all 4 corners. Widebands that can check both banks are nice because they help you track down the variances a bit faster. Keep in mind though, bank to bank is only going to be a direct relation to that side of the carb on a single plane intake, dual planes have one side of the carb(driver or passenger) feeding 2 cylinders on 1 side and 2 on the other, so it could show a balanced AFR when you have rich/lean cylinders on both banks. Whether that's even necessary and to what extent depends on the engine setup, modern dual planes like the Air Gap have very little flow imbalance under 6,500rpm.
Remember though, the wideband is a tool like anything else, it's not the be all and end all. Even the hardest of hardcore racers who know their poop, always go back to 2 main things, what do the plugs look like(and the inside of the header primaries, but I doubt any of us are willing to pull the headers after every pass), and how did it perform. Definitely get the tuning/plug reading learning info at least, and learn to read the plugs right. Using a wideband properly along with plug reading, there's no reason why any carb shouldn't be as dialed in as EFI.
And yes, AFR from bank to bank can be different and there is no hard and fast rule that says you have to jet every barrel the same etc. If you have flow balance issues with an intake that disrupt the AFR enough, you can read each individual plug and determine which cylinders are rich/lean, trace that runner back to the nearest carb barrel and tune accordingly. In real world tuning you may end up with differing jets and air bleeds on all 4 corners. Widebands that can check both banks are nice because they help you track down the variances a bit faster. Keep in mind though, bank to bank is only going to be a direct relation to that side of the carb on a single plane intake, dual planes have one side of the carb(driver or passenger) feeding 2 cylinders on 1 side and 2 on the other, so it could show a balanced AFR when you have rich/lean cylinders on both banks. Whether that's even necessary and to what extent depends on the engine setup, modern dual planes like the Air Gap have very little flow imbalance under 6,500rpm.
Remember though, the wideband is a tool like anything else, it's not the be all and end all. Even the hardest of hardcore racers who know their poop, always go back to 2 main things, what do the plugs look like(and the inside of the header primaries, but I doubt any of us are willing to pull the headers after every pass), and how did it perform. Definitely get the tuning/plug reading learning info at least, and learn to read the plugs right. Using a wideband properly along with plug reading, there's no reason why any carb shouldn't be as dialed in as EFI.
05-11-2009, 05:16 AM
#17
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cork, Ireland
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thanks for the time writing this up.
It's funny as that was the first thing that camne to my mind as well: Ear scope. Thanks for info about imbalance as well.
Mark mentioned as well it's only a tool. I'm aware that it won't do the work for me.
But for example with the hesitation off stop. I always thought I was running to lean opn the accellerator pump. But it seems to be the case now that I just flodded poor old carb when pressing the throttle asking for a less dramatic squirt. The wideband would have shown me (should have shown me) a huge drop in AFR. I agree that you have to understand the carb on what to work on. how to correct. But that's not something I'm afraid of learning. It's rather going top be fun :-]
I don't want an all out race car. I just want to be confident everything is setup correctly to avoid engione damage and have that thing driving like a normal car (like EFI). no hesitation anywhere, no bog anywhere. If it then makes gobs of power I'll be a happy man!
Kalli
It's funny as that was the first thing that camne to my mind as well: Ear scope. Thanks for info about imbalance as well.
Mark mentioned as well it's only a tool. I'm aware that it won't do the work for me.
But for example with the hesitation off stop. I always thought I was running to lean opn the accellerator pump. But it seems to be the case now that I just flodded poor old carb when pressing the throttle asking for a less dramatic squirt. The wideband would have shown me (should have shown me) a huge drop in AFR. I agree that you have to understand the carb on what to work on. how to correct. But that's not something I'm afraid of learning. It's rather going top be fun :-]
I don't want an all out race car. I just want to be confident everything is setup correctly to avoid engione damage and have that thing driving like a normal car (like EFI). no hesitation anywhere, no bog anywhere. If it then makes gobs of power I'll be a happy man!
Kalli
05-11-2009, 09:03 AM
#18
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 2,100
I LOVE my LM-2. It is very addictive looking at that thing and playing with the throttle while you are cruising down the road. It can really take the guess work out of tuning, assuming you know how to react to what it is tell you (I do not always know what to do to correct things). Installation is not bad if you have the room to install the bungs in the correct location. I personally would stay away from the clamp style and go with the true sensor in pipe.
05-12-2009, 04:53 AM
#19
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 6,417
Hi Urban,
i don't really want a permanent setup. Don't want a A/F gauge in car. Otherwise I would have 'restomodded' the full interior. I have everything original looking. So this is rather for just checking, adjusting, checking. be done with it.
Then hook the thing up to the next car. But it's good to know you're using and liking it as well.
I just talked to someone on eBay and he'd give me the LM-1, rpm converter and exhaust clamp for 450$ free shipping to Ireland. An offer I find hard to refuse. But I need to check on funds first ....
Kalli
i don't really want a permanent setup. Don't want a A/F gauge in car. Otherwise I would have 'restomodded' the full interior. I have everything original looking. So this is rather for just checking, adjusting, checking. be done with it.
Then hook the thing up to the next car. But it's good to know you're using and liking it as well.
I just talked to someone on eBay and he'd give me the LM-1, rpm converter and exhaust clamp for 450$ free shipping to Ireland. An offer I find hard to refuse. But I need to check on funds first ....
Kalli
