modern 5 speed swap...do i really have to cut my car? :(
02-19-2010, 03:57 PM
#31
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ny
Posts: 404
thats awesome! so i read that you had some trouble with your exhaust clearing the trans mount? also if you don't mind me asking...how much did that whole swap cost you? did you buy the t56 new or used? price is a huge factor for me.
02-19-2010, 05:47 PM
#32
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington
Posts: 682
This is what it cost me.
Tranny and yoke new and shipped $2350 from corral
Motor mounts $175 iirc from Ron Morris
Kevlar clutch about $320 IIRC CJ Pony Parts
Custom speedo cable $50
steel for tranny mount $20
reverse lockout solenoid wiring $25 IIRC form GM dealer
I already had a JMC hydraulic clutch but you can piece one together for abour $200
I am into it about $3,200. It may be a little more now but should be pretty close to that. Maybe $3500 for all new stuff at today's prices. If you shop around I have heard of guys doing it with used tranny's for closer to $2k.
I put the exhaust back on and then made the mounts for it. It took longer but works great. I did redo the crossmember this winter because I did not like the thickness of the metal of my original crossmember. The new one is stout and modular. It bolts to a plate that is bolted to the tranny and bolts in the original mounts on bot sides. It is not moving anywhere and easy to remove if I wanted to. I guess I could always weld it together now but I like the flexability of having it modular.
Do some more homework on this before you go and buy the parts. It is not brain surgery but will require some fabrication skills. If you are not comfortable with fabricating brackets Ron Morris has a crossmember that will work with this conversion. It is a little less than $200 IIRC. I almost purchased it but was unsure if it would work with my exhaust. I likely would have but I did not want to take the chance.
There is more useful info here as well. Going the used/new route.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-research.html
Tranny and yoke new and shipped $2350 from corral
Motor mounts $175 iirc from Ron Morris
Kevlar clutch about $320 IIRC CJ Pony Parts
Custom speedo cable $50
steel for tranny mount $20
reverse lockout solenoid wiring $25 IIRC form GM dealer
I already had a JMC hydraulic clutch but you can piece one together for abour $200
I am into it about $3,200. It may be a little more now but should be pretty close to that. Maybe $3500 for all new stuff at today's prices. If you shop around I have heard of guys doing it with used tranny's for closer to $2k.
I put the exhaust back on and then made the mounts for it. It took longer but works great. I did redo the crossmember this winter because I did not like the thickness of the metal of my original crossmember. The new one is stout and modular. It bolts to a plate that is bolted to the tranny and bolts in the original mounts on bot sides. It is not moving anywhere and easy to remove if I wanted to. I guess I could always weld it together now but I like the flexability of having it modular.
Do some more homework on this before you go and buy the parts. It is not brain surgery but will require some fabrication skills. If you are not comfortable with fabricating brackets Ron Morris has a crossmember that will work with this conversion. It is a little less than $200 IIRC. I almost purchased it but was unsure if it would work with my exhaust. I likely would have but I did not want to take the chance.
There is more useful info here as well. Going the used/new route.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-research.html
Last edited by 68EFIvert; 02-19-2010 at 05:57 PM.
02-20-2010, 02:19 AM
#33
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: U.S.
Posts: 216
thanks for all the help guys...i actually just got off the phone with modern drive line and this is what he told me (he was very honest too)...a full t-5z (a bit beefier than a t-5) conversion kit with a kevlar clutch will run around 3200...but even at 425hp i have to be careful and shouldnt run it at the track...i can get a tko600 for 900 bucks more and i dont have to cut the tunnel or air hammer it, just drop the tail end an inch and it will fit (but be a tight fit)... but then my pinion angle will change and i will have to correct that (which i dont know how i would do that)...4 grand is a lot for a tko kit in my opinion...as fun as a 5 speed would be i feel like i can have an aod conversion done for half the price and run 500hp without worrying about it blowing up. what do u guys think?
02-20-2010, 09:55 AM
#34
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 315
i just did a toploader to TKO600 swap a few weeks ago on a 69 mustang.
1. used ron morris 1/2" drop mounts.
2. made my own crossmember.
3. use a low profile offset shifter
4. modified my clutch linkage
5. notched the floor support
6. will need to cut a 3" slit in the floor so i can bubble it out for another 1/8" of clearance.
i toyed around with the quite a bit before doing the swap because i was concerned about driveline angles. the more you drop the tailshaft the more bind on the z-bar. dropping the transmission crossmember 1" will change the angle by a few degrees. i know because i used a jack on the original toploader to see what would happen. i encourage you to do the same and see what happens to the rest of you clearances. i made serious modifications to my clutch linkage already do to the lakewood scattershield and headers so this swap just merged that additional problem.
i referenced the engine angle before and after the swap. i measured an increase of 0.25 to 0.50 degrees on the engine.
1. used ron morris 1/2" drop mounts.
2. made my own crossmember.
3. use a low profile offset shifter
4. modified my clutch linkage
5. notched the floor support
6. will need to cut a 3" slit in the floor so i can bubble it out for another 1/8" of clearance.
i toyed around with the quite a bit before doing the swap because i was concerned about driveline angles. the more you drop the tailshaft the more bind on the z-bar. dropping the transmission crossmember 1" will change the angle by a few degrees. i know because i used a jack on the original toploader to see what would happen. i encourage you to do the same and see what happens to the rest of you clearances. i made serious modifications to my clutch linkage already do to the lakewood scattershield and headers so this swap just merged that additional problem.
i referenced the engine angle before and after the swap. i measured an increase of 0.25 to 0.50 degrees on the engine.
02-20-2010, 10:25 AM
#35
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ABQ, NM, USA
Posts: 2,593
Like the OP, an AOD would be more straightforward since an auto is already in place. I wouldn't trust a stock or junkyard one though. They can be rebuilt with locking or nonlocking TCs and even switched for OD control. But by the time you tweak it out, the price diff is only a small amount if any.
It comes down to a question of manual or auto in the end.
A gear vendors OD unit is another option for the c4 and it splits gears to make it a quasi 6 speed.
It comes down to a question of manual or auto in the end.
A gear vendors OD unit is another option for the c4 and it splits gears to make it a quasi 6 speed.
Last edited by 69mach1377; 02-20-2010 at 10:27 AM.
02-20-2010, 12:20 PM
#36
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ny
Posts: 404
wow thanks for all of this great info guys...68efi im considering a t56 now bc it seems like it costs as much as a tko swap (in your case at least) and u didnt have to cut the car up. what website is corral found at? buckeyedemon, thanks for all the great info and pics! what is your pinion angle set at?
02-20-2010, 01:48 PM
#37
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 315
no idea what my pinion angle is. once the car is fully assembled and sitting on the ground with it's weight, i'll measure the working angle of the u-joint on the tranny/driveshaft and alter the pinion accordingly. during the swap, i was trying to minimize the difference from stock since i don't know what the driveshaft angle is. even if the engine angle remains the same, lowering the engine will have an impact on the driveline angles.
do everyone a favor when you have completed your swap. report what your before and after driveline angle is. i'm interested in knowing the difference. not the actual angle. just put a gauge on either carb platform or valve cover rail for reference.
good luck!
do everyone a favor when you have completed your swap. report what your before and after driveline angle is. i'm interested in knowing the difference. not the actual angle. just put a gauge on either carb platform or valve cover rail for reference.
good luck!
02-20-2010, 02:29 PM
#38
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ny
Posts: 404
ok, i will deff do that and let you know...by the way, why did you have to cut a 3"slit? the guys at modern driveline said you really shouldnt have to mod the car to get it to fit, but if u wanna keep the angle the same just take an air hammer to the tunnel
02-20-2010, 03:10 PM
#39
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 315
Modern Driveline drops the transmission crossmember about 3/4" which was a little more than i wanted. (reasons for me to not want additional angle): it angles the shaker in a direction that makes it harder for me to modify (fitting a victor jr on a 351W), further alters the driveline angle, would cause the steering link to hit the oil pan even more).
the crossmember that i made holds the tailshaft up a little higher than theirs. as a result the one cap hits the tunnel right where the firewall overlaps the floor pan. i tried to hit it up right there with a ball been hammer, bit it just didn't want to move. i'll just make a cut, hammer it up, weld it then grind it down.
Keisler modifies there TKO's at this spot to alleviate this clearance problem.
FYI, modern driveline sold me an offset shifter to whatever i asked them for. however i nicked part of it off anyways to provide a base for the original shifter.
with all of the other mods i had already completed, this swap ended up being one of the easier things i've done.
i thought the t-56 was bigger than the 3550/tko500/tko600. i'm surprised to read from a previous post that no cutting was performed to the car. however there are many factors that make each build different.
just remember when you move things around, it can lead to a host of other problems... (like when i installed the drop mounts, the fan then hit the shroud
the crossmember that i made holds the tailshaft up a little higher than theirs. as a result the one cap hits the tunnel right where the firewall overlaps the floor pan. i tried to hit it up right there with a ball been hammer, bit it just didn't want to move. i'll just make a cut, hammer it up, weld it then grind it down.
Keisler modifies there TKO's at this spot to alleviate this clearance problem.
FYI, modern driveline sold me an offset shifter to whatever i asked them for. however i nicked part of it off anyways to provide a base for the original shifter.
with all of the other mods i had already completed, this swap ended up being one of the easier things i've done.
i thought the t-56 was bigger than the 3550/tko500/tko600. i'm surprised to read from a previous post that no cutting was performed to the car. however there are many factors that make each build different.
just remember when you move things around, it can lead to a host of other problems... (like when i installed the drop mounts, the fan then hit the shroud
