SSBC Comp R/S Brakes
04-24-2010, 05:34 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 630
Just a word of caution, don't go road racing with those. Cross drilled rotors = fail.
And yeah, I prefer Wilwood, excellent performance for the cost. Arguably you get the best braking for the least amount of money with Wilwood, which is why you see them on most stock cars and a lot of road and drag racing cars. Wilwood sells cross drilled rotors too, but they come with a huge fat WARNING! in giant red letters that says do not use cross drilled rotors for racing, they're for street/show use only.
And yeah, I prefer Wilwood, excellent performance for the cost. Arguably you get the best braking for the least amount of money with Wilwood, which is why you see them on most stock cars and a lot of road and drag racing cars. Wilwood sells cross drilled rotors too, but they come with a huge fat WARNING! in giant red letters that says do not use cross drilled rotors for racing, they're for street/show use only.
04-24-2010, 10:34 PM
#12
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
Cross drilled rotors crack from thermal checking. So if you do race them or use them hard, keep an eye on them for very small spiderweb like hiarline fractures throughout the rotor, once you see then, replace them. Wilwood may have a hat type rotor that fits, otherwise SSBC or whoever you can find that makes a good flat face vented rotor. Just don't run rotors that have thermal checking, they can break apart.
04-24-2010, 10:37 PM
#13
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 144
67Mustang302,
I received mine the other day too. Thanks again for pointing out the sale. The brakes look awesome. I'm not worried about the minute difference there may or may not be between the SSBC and the Wilwoods. I got a great deal on the kit and don't plan on road racing anytime soon (as in never). I'm sure the difference between these and my current drum setup are going to be night and day.
I also go the kit in clear with no powdercoat. Are you going to paint your calipers before putting them on? If so, do you have a kit your planning on using? I've seen several kits online. POR-15 looks the best to me so far based on the reviews I've read, but it sounds like you have to bake them to cure the brush-on paint. I don't think my wife would appreciate that too much.
I received mine the other day too. Thanks again for pointing out the sale. The brakes look awesome. I'm not worried about the minute difference there may or may not be between the SSBC and the Wilwoods. I got a great deal on the kit and don't plan on road racing anytime soon (as in never). I'm sure the difference between these and my current drum setup are going to be night and day.
I also go the kit in clear with no powdercoat. Are you going to paint your calipers before putting them on? If so, do you have a kit your planning on using? I've seen several kits online. POR-15 looks the best to me so far based on the reviews I've read, but it sounds like you have to bake them to cure the brush-on paint. I don't think my wife would appreciate that too much.
04-24-2010, 10:46 PM
#14
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
Drilled rotors will be fine in street use with a mild pad compound. They just become an issue with more aggressive compounds are used to their potential. And there would be a substantially larger difference than minute, but again, it doesn't matter to someone unless they intend on racing.
And they sell caliper paint, specifically for painting brake calipers. Check Summit or Jegs, you can get it in a bunch of different colors.
And they sell caliper paint, specifically for painting brake calipers. Check Summit or Jegs, you can get it in a bunch of different colors.
04-25-2010, 02:12 AM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 8,162
Only the cross drilled rotors that are not counter sunk will crack.I have c6 z06 brakes on my regal after 2 years and a lot of auto crossing and country roads they never cracked.Por15 might not like the heat and peal off of them.Normal brake paint is made to handle the heat and will stay on them.
04-25-2010, 04:03 AM
#16
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 144
I was referring to the POR-15 Brake Caliper Painting kit, not regular POR-15. I didn't realize they made a kit either, but I've nothing but good things about their products so I figure I may give them a try. Check out the link below, they make a product specific for painting calipers...
http://www.amazon.com/POR-15-Caliper...186200&sr=1-41
http://www.amazon.com/POR-15-Caliper...186200&sr=1-41
04-25-2010, 02:59 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 630
Just ordered the rear as well. Summit also has a sale on them. Also 4 piston aluminum calipers and 11.25" rotors. Parts #W110-21
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SSB-W110-21/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SSB-W110-21/
04-26-2010, 01:22 AM
#19
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
Counter sinking the cross drills on rotors has nothing to do with thermal checking. It's not a stress riser issue. Rotors work(at least part of what they do) by providing surface area/material volume for the brake pads to act against and by providing material volume for heat conduction and dissipation. Cross drilling causes problems with both areas. First by reducing braking surface area and material volume it forces more heat from friction into smaller areas, causing the rotors to get hotter. Secondly, by reducing the material volume, you reduce the amount of heat dissipation capability, causing the rotor to hold more heat longer or to be unable to bleed the necessary heat off before reapplying the brakes. It causes the rotors to get too hot and expand beyond their design limits and then cool back down, resulting in cracking from excessive thermal expansion and contraction.
The cross drilled brakes that don't have problems, don't because they're running street type compounds in street type conditions. That's not what I was referring too. While AutoX may be harder on brakes, the speeds are MUCH slower than on a road course, so it's unlikely to cause thermal checking unless you run a pad compound with an extremely high cold friction value. Road courses have you harder on the brakes for longer, more heat is made and there's often not enough time for the brakes to come back down to "cold temp"(usually 100* F is the cold point) before the next brake application.
On a road course the pad compounds that cars come with that have drilled rotors, usually aren't aggressive enough to create enough friction to generate the heat to be a problem....they may not fade out, but they just don't make enough friction to be a problem either. That's actually a problem that Z06 owners have that go to road courses with upgraded pad compounds and drilled rotors. The stock brakes are fine because the pads are less aggressive so the friction is lower and therefore the heat, but when they decide they want more braking power and run a more aggressive compounds, the rotors usually crack after the first time on track, sometimes after only 20-30 minutes.
Remember that pad compounds can be radically different. One compound for the same clamping force may create twice the friction of another compound....making more friction means making more heat, and more quickly. Factory brakes with cross drilled rotors for "high performance use" run compounds that operate in colder temperature ranges so the rotors survive since they have high amounts of cooling relative to the pad compound. But once you go from a pad that operates in a low temperature range(stock) to a pad that's a medium temp range and up, you're moving the operational temperature range of the brakes higher. That may move the operating temp of the rotors outside their engineered specifications....and they fail as a result.
Cross drilled rotors won't have problems if they remain cool enough, but that often requires running excessively large rotors for the application....14 x 1.25" for example. But then it's pointless to run a medium to high temp compound with a rotor that never lets the pad get up to temperature because you then never gain the benefit of the increased friction from the pad....it needs to get into it's operational temp range to work best. Brakes are an engineered system, which is why companies like Wilwood advise against the use of a cross drilled rotor for racing. It's far better to run a flat face standard vented rotor that won't fail at insane temps with a pad that creates more friction in a higher temp range. You end up with a smaller rotor that has lower unsprung rotational mass and operates in a higher temperature range, allowing the pad to bite the way it was intended. IE, why run a pad that needs 800* F to work best, but never sees 600* F. Some race teams run cross drilled rotors, but they're replaced after every race...and in more and more instances, they're not even running iron rotors any more, they're stainless or even ceramic and carbon based composites.
Cross drilled rotors are pointless, and often dangerous when operated at high temperatures realized in racing. There's a reason why the companies like Wilwood that sell brakes for actual race cars strongly advise against the use of drilled rotors in ALL racing conditions, and recommend them for street use ONLY.
The cross drilled brakes that don't have problems, don't because they're running street type compounds in street type conditions. That's not what I was referring too. While AutoX may be harder on brakes, the speeds are MUCH slower than on a road course, so it's unlikely to cause thermal checking unless you run a pad compound with an extremely high cold friction value. Road courses have you harder on the brakes for longer, more heat is made and there's often not enough time for the brakes to come back down to "cold temp"(usually 100* F is the cold point) before the next brake application.
On a road course the pad compounds that cars come with that have drilled rotors, usually aren't aggressive enough to create enough friction to generate the heat to be a problem....they may not fade out, but they just don't make enough friction to be a problem either. That's actually a problem that Z06 owners have that go to road courses with upgraded pad compounds and drilled rotors. The stock brakes are fine because the pads are less aggressive so the friction is lower and therefore the heat, but when they decide they want more braking power and run a more aggressive compounds, the rotors usually crack after the first time on track, sometimes after only 20-30 minutes.
Remember that pad compounds can be radically different. One compound for the same clamping force may create twice the friction of another compound....making more friction means making more heat, and more quickly. Factory brakes with cross drilled rotors for "high performance use" run compounds that operate in colder temperature ranges so the rotors survive since they have high amounts of cooling relative to the pad compound. But once you go from a pad that operates in a low temperature range(stock) to a pad that's a medium temp range and up, you're moving the operational temperature range of the brakes higher. That may move the operating temp of the rotors outside their engineered specifications....and they fail as a result.
Cross drilled rotors won't have problems if they remain cool enough, but that often requires running excessively large rotors for the application....14 x 1.25" for example. But then it's pointless to run a medium to high temp compound with a rotor that never lets the pad get up to temperature because you then never gain the benefit of the increased friction from the pad....it needs to get into it's operational temp range to work best. Brakes are an engineered system, which is why companies like Wilwood advise against the use of a cross drilled rotor for racing. It's far better to run a flat face standard vented rotor that won't fail at insane temps with a pad that creates more friction in a higher temp range. You end up with a smaller rotor that has lower unsprung rotational mass and operates in a higher temperature range, allowing the pad to bite the way it was intended. IE, why run a pad that needs 800* F to work best, but never sees 600* F. Some race teams run cross drilled rotors, but they're replaced after every race...and in more and more instances, they're not even running iron rotors any more, they're stainless or even ceramic and carbon based composites.
Cross drilled rotors are pointless, and often dangerous when operated at high temperatures realized in racing. There's a reason why the companies like Wilwood that sell brakes for actual race cars strongly advise against the use of drilled rotors in ALL racing conditions, and recommend them for street use ONLY.
