Any cam suggestions for a 289?
06-17-2010, 06:47 AM
#11
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Location: North East Texas on the Red River
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A 260H would be a good choice. It will add some torque without moving it too far up the RPM range.
You should reread 67Mustang 302's post several times and think about it. A cam will not make this car feel stronger and if too much cam is put in, it will FEEL weaker. In most cases all a cam will do is move the torque peak to a higher RPM which will impact the mathematical horsepower calculation. Horsepower wins races, but the higher RPM decreases engine life.
If you are looking for it to FEEL stronger, you will probably be disappointed. If you are looking to win drag races at the expense of engine life, then you're on the right track. Low and mid range torque makes a car fun to drive. Horsepower wins races.
You should reread 67Mustang 302's post several times and think about it. A cam will not make this car feel stronger and if too much cam is put in, it will FEEL weaker. In most cases all a cam will do is move the torque peak to a higher RPM which will impact the mathematical horsepower calculation. Horsepower wins races, but the higher RPM decreases engine life.
If you are looking for it to FEEL stronger, you will probably be disappointed. If you are looking to win drag races at the expense of engine life, then you're on the right track. Low and mid range torque makes a car fun to drive. Horsepower wins races.
06-17-2010, 08:25 AM
#12
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Also keep in mind, lower rear gears will make more of an impact in seat-of-your-pants acceleration than just about any other modification. When I switched from 2.79's to 3.25's, the change was more drastic than my entire stroker rebuild.
06-17-2010, 11:57 AM
#13
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Location: North East Texas on the Red River
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Yes, lower gears can make a car a real hoot to drive. Lower gears could also make a fat cam more practical.
Most all modern cars have overdrives, so old codgers like me are surprised when they get in an older car with lower gears and no overdrive. It doesn't take long to get comfortable with 3,000 or 3,500 RPM highway cruising though.
Most all modern cars have overdrives, so old codgers like me are surprised when they get in an older car with lower gears and no overdrive. It doesn't take long to get comfortable with 3,000 or 3,500 RPM highway cruising though.
06-17-2010, 12:56 PM
#14
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Keep in mind that factory heads used 2 piece valves as well. So more cam than stock requires more valve spring than stock, so the you have to tear the heads down to get them rebuilt with 1 piece valves so the factory 2 piece units don't break off and destroy the engine. That means you either use a weak cam that works with factory parts, in which case it's cam/lifters plus gaskets for basically 0 power increase and some cost. Or you rebuild the heads, and then you're talking cam/lifters, pushrods, springs, retainers, locks, valves, seats and guides, which is a bunch more money, for not much power increase because the heads are stock. But then you could get the heads ported which is more money, so then a ported/rebuilt head/cam setup vs spending money on good heads and getting a 3-5x power per $ spent on investment return.
In other words, figure out what you want to do with the car, and then when you're ready to gears, heads and cam all at once. Or just rebuild the whole thing all at once and go from a 185hp engine to a 385hp engine....but then there's money into suspension and drivetrain to hold the power and so on and so forth.
See what I'm getting at? You can either spend bits of money at a time and have thousands into it for very little performance return, or do major things all at once and spend the same or more money in the long run, but have a very large performance return.
In other words, figure out what you want to do with the car, and then when you're ready to gears, heads and cam all at once. Or just rebuild the whole thing all at once and go from a 185hp engine to a 385hp engine....but then there's money into suspension and drivetrain to hold the power and so on and so forth.
See what I'm getting at? You can either spend bits of money at a time and have thousands into it for very little performance return, or do major things all at once and spend the same or more money in the long run, but have a very large performance return.
06-17-2010, 01:05 PM
#15
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: PA
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Depends on what else you are changing. The stock iron heads are horrible, but most of this is due to the really bad exhaust ports. These can be cleaned up, though, and you don't have to be a professional. I showed a guy here how to clean up the ports, and he did the other seven at home. The engine was assembled with a C9OZ-C Ford hydraulic 289HP cam, and pulled 321hp on the dyno.
06-18-2010, 05:21 PM
#16
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: az
Posts: 459
If I am not mistaken, comp cams has a form you fill out and they make a recommendation for you. If you love your car and plan to keep it my opinion is
Shelve the engine, save it for a later day
buy a used 5.0 HO engine from 90-93 mustang
replace the front and rear main seals, install a front sump oil pan and pickup
install a carb and nice intake (vac secondaries for an auto and good mileage, mech for manual and more giddyup)
you will need the HO dampner and a pulley to work with your front dress or stay with serpentine and use the HO alternator with internal regulator
I made mine a serpentine and kept the HO front dress. I am not positive on using the old front dress what you will need to do.
There are a few other details to work out. You can search it or I can help you with it.
the hitch is making the front dress work, it might cost you some money. But you get a roller cam block with forged pistons and 17" of vacuum at idle. Place that in front of a T5 with at least 3.25's in the rear and you won't believe it's the same car.
Shelve the engine, save it for a later day
buy a used 5.0 HO engine from 90-93 mustang
replace the front and rear main seals, install a front sump oil pan and pickup
install a carb and nice intake (vac secondaries for an auto and good mileage, mech for manual and more giddyup)
you will need the HO dampner and a pulley to work with your front dress or stay with serpentine and use the HO alternator with internal regulator
I made mine a serpentine and kept the HO front dress. I am not positive on using the old front dress what you will need to do.
There are a few other details to work out. You can search it or I can help you with it.
the hitch is making the front dress work, it might cost you some money. But you get a roller cam block with forged pistons and 17" of vacuum at idle. Place that in front of a T5 with at least 3.25's in the rear and you won't believe it's the same car.
Last edited by OCHOHILL; 06-18-2010 at 05:23 PM.
06-18-2010, 05:22 PM
#17
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: az
Posts: 459
Depends on what else you are changing. The stock iron heads are horrible, but most of this is due to the really bad exhaust ports. These can be cleaned up, though, and you don't have to be a professional. I showed a guy here how to clean up the ports, and he did the other seven at home. The engine was assembled with a C9OZ-C Ford hydraulic 289HP cam, and pulled 321hp on the dyno.
06-18-2010, 09:06 PM
#18
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Posts: 572
Keep in mind that factory heads used 2 piece valves as well. So more cam than stock requires more valve spring than stock, so the you have to tear the heads down to get them rebuilt with 1 piece valves so the factory 2 piece units don't break off and destroy the engine. That means you either use a weak cam that works with factory parts, in which case it's cam/lifters plus gaskets for basically 0 power increase and some cost. Or you rebuild the heads, and then you're talking cam/lifters, pushrods, springs, retainers, locks, valves, seats and guides, which is a bunch more money, for not much power increase because the heads are stock. But then you could get the heads ported which is more money, so then a ported/rebuilt head/cam setup vs spending money on good heads and getting a 3-5x power per $ spent on investment return.
In other words, figure out what you want to do with the car, and then when you're ready to gears, heads and cam all at once. Or just rebuild the whole thing all at once and go from a 185hp engine to a 385hp engine....but then there's money into suspension and drivetrain to hold the power and so on and so forth.
See what I'm getting at? You can either spend bits of money at a time and have thousands into it for very little performance return, or do major things all at once and spend the same or more money in the long run, but have a very large performance return.
In other words, figure out what you want to do with the car, and then when you're ready to gears, heads and cam all at once. Or just rebuild the whole thing all at once and go from a 185hp engine to a 385hp engine....but then there's money into suspension and drivetrain to hold the power and so on and so forth.
See what I'm getting at? You can either spend bits of money at a time and have thousands into it for very little performance return, or do major things all at once and spend the same or more money in the long run, but have a very large performance return.
06-19-2010, 12:56 AM
#19
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
But again it gets back to whether the minimal power gain is worth the cost associated with a cam swap. My view is that if you're gonna swap a cam on a stock head engine, then you may as well swap heads AND cam. The initial investment is higher, but the performance return on investment is MUCH greater than just a cam swap.
Just something to consider.
Just something to consider.
06-19-2010, 05:43 AM
#20
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 5,232
I recommended that, but I don't know if he did. Easy enough to do.
Nothing magic about "new" heads, it's all about flow. Back when these cars were new, or almost new, Crane offered "Fireball" heads for the 289/302. They used 289HP (then later 302) heads, and opened up the ports, especially the exhaust ports, the real weakness of the SB head. So large they required special headers. I stick with the OE port size, but since you often have to grind about half a pound of iron out just to get to that (the stock castings were often that bad) it makes a very big difference. Pretty impressive results in just a couple of hours, all you really do is grind out to the original design without all the casting flash and smog bumps. Really takes advantage of whatever cam you use. I have the C3OZ-C. Cleaning out the exhaust ports made it feel like I had upgraded the cam.
Crane Fireball:
But again it gets back to whether the minimal power gain is worth the cost associated with a cam swap. My view is that if you're gonna swap a cam on a stock head engine, then you may as well swap heads AND cam. The initial investment is higher, but the performance return on investment is MUCH greater than just a cam swap.
Just something to consider.
Just something to consider.
Crane Fireball:
Last edited by 2+2GT; 06-19-2010 at 05:52 AM.