When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
How much of the "feel" of the shifter on a Toploader is due to the shifter itself--and how much to the trans internals? I'm not impressed with the balky shifting & huge throws in my factory 4-speed. I don't know the condition or history of the shifter or trans so how can I tell if anything is worn out? Or is this as good as it gets on a 45 year old toploader & shifter?
A well-mannered toploader is quite crisp. A Ford shifter in good condition is almost it's equal. The handle must be mounted properly, with correct parts. Often the grommets are old and shot, and the top washers are crummy generic trash, or missing altogether. Worn Ford shifters can be professionally rebuilt to like-new condition.
The toploader is a legend, widely regarded as the best 4-speed ever built. The smallblock version was extremely strong, and the 428 version was almost indestructible.
Most of it is the transmission design. Large gear clusters and the synchro design give it a hard, notchy feel. But a trans in good condition with a good shifter will feel crisp and shift nicely, it just won't feel like a "new car" transmission. Keep in mind though that performance transmissions don't always shift easily. My TKO 600 shifts better than my To9ploader did, but it's still firm and notchy. The new Richmond street 5 spd is evidently very notchy and hard, especially at high rpm.
Transmission shifting ease is a lot related to the rotational mass of the gear clusters. Smaller clusters have less mass and are easier to synchronize, so they shift easier....they also break easier. Performance transmissions shift harder due to beefier gear clusters...which is why they don't break easily.
If it's sloppy and rattles, rebuild the shifter. Glazier's sells a good shifter rebuild kit that will remove most of the slop in an old, abused shifter.
In an effort to not start another toploader thread, I would like to share my experience freshening up my 68' shifter/control box and linkage. It was pretty grimey and there was play at the front linkage where it connects to the shift shaft arms. It didn't feel smooth at all and even after doing a proper linkage adjustment it wasn't good.
I sanded and lubricated every surface that rubs in the shifter control box, including the arms, the main body, the separating washer, the wave washer, the shifter button-***** and where they rub, and I sanded and lubed the main shaft. The rebuild kits for sale seemed like they include a lot of stuff that is easily reuseable so I didn't want to fork over $60 for stuff I don't need. I'm on a budget, that's why I am not installing a hurst shifter. On a side note, I think the price is ridiculous for a hurst shifter/ install kit.
I didn't want to buy rubber grommets that allow deflection with the shifter trunion bolts, so here is what I did. I found washers with an OD that fit in the recesses in the shifter. I slowly drilled 4 of these washers using locking pliers and a hand drill so that the ID would fit tightly around the trunion bolt shafts. 2 on topside, 2 on bottom side, and two additional lock washers on the top side. I slightly extended the springs behind the shifter button things so that in the neutral position the shifter doesn't wiggle or anything, plus the firmer these springs are the more direct the shifter responds to your side to side movement.
One thing I do want to purchase new is the wave washer inside the control box right under the retaining bracket. I purposely bent mine in a few areas so that it would get some 'spring' back. I will try to find a replacement wave washer individually, because this washer serves a very important role in the function/feel of the shifter. For now my quick fix helped.
For where the linkage rods go through the shifter arms, there was fore/aft play I didn't like. By fore/aft I mean the play was forward and back relative to the transmission. I got 3 brass spacer thingies at the hardware store for $1.49 each. I cut them to length using snippers, and split them lengthwise so that they would fit over the linkage rods. They were just barely too small to fit over the rods without the lengthwise cut. The point of these spacers is that they fill in empty space that caused unnecessary play between the linkage and the shift shaft levers. This mod worked perfectly after I cleaned up the rods with a wire wheel and squeezed the rough edges of the spacer so that it would fit just right (not snug, room for slight movement) through the shift lever holes. I lubed these too.
Lastly, my car had zero of the original curved washers that help hold the shift linkage in the proper position through the shift shaft arms. This also prevents vibration when driving because it holds the linkage against the shift arms. Again not wanting to have to spend $ ordering specialty washers, I didn't see why a normal compression spring cut to length wouldn't work. I picked up 2 springs for $3, cut them very short so that they would fit between a regular washer and the shift arm with a cotter pin installed. The trick is that the spring can't be at full compression when installed with the washer and cotter pin. This worked perfectly! The fore/aft rod play is probably 1/4 or less what it was before, and the springs hold the rods in perfect position.
I spent $7.50 on the hardware and had everything else on hand. It is a lot better after this and I am pleased to say I will rock the stock shifter forever probably. Yes its still notchy, but with these transmissions I don't think there's a way around that.
I'm actually rather proud of my modifications even though they are simple ones. I really don't see the point of rebuild kits having so much in them when nearly everything is serviceable or reuseable. The only things I could see wearing out past the point of return are the curved washers, the wave washer inside the control box, the button springs, and the rubber shifter grommets which I eliminated. I highly recommend these small mods. I will be using compression springs for the control box side to, just didn't get to that today.
Glad you got everything done to your liking. Most people, however, either aren't that resourceful or would rather spend the money on OE-style parts than time modifying off-the-shelf hardware.
I will say, though, that the Hurst/Mr Gasket shift rod bushings/clips are fantastic out of the box. And while I agree that the Hurst shifters and linkage kits are absurdly expensive...I really, really like mine It was bolted to the close-ratio toploader I picked up for $250, and after a rebuild it shifts as smoothly and precisely as I could imagine a toploader will ever shift.
In an effort to not start another toploader thread, I would like to share my experience freshening up my 68' shifter/control box and linkage. Actually, considering the change in topic and the effort you put into it, a new thread would have been welcome.
It was pretty grimey and there was play at the front linkage where it connects to the shift shaft arms. It didn't feel smooth at all and even after doing a proper linkage adjustment it wasn't good. You should always start with a good cleaning. As for "play", there should be no side to side (axial) movement due to the "wavy" washers, and no axial movement due to the tight tolerances on the fit of the levers on the rods. Worn rods and levers should be reconditioned or replaced. With proper care, they should last for years in daily use. On a cruise night car, they should last forever.
I sanded and lubricated every surface that rubs in the shifter control box, including the arms, the main body, the separating washer, the wave washer, the shifter button-***** and where they rub, and I sanded and lubed the main shaft. I hope that sanding was with something like 600 grit silicon carbide paper.
The rebuild kits for sale seemed like they include a lot of stuff that is easily reuseable so I didn't want to fork over $60 for stuff I don't need. I prefer to get just what's needed, too. 5-speed conversion "kits" often include things you don't need, such as a slip yoke. I'm on a budget, that's why I am not installing a hurst shifter. On a side note, I think the price is ridiculous for a Hurst™ shifter/ install kit. Hmmm… Be glad you don't have a Corvette-
Total cost, $542
I didn't want to buy rubber grommets that allow deflection with the shifter trunion bolts, so here is what I did.
When properly installed with the correct hardened washers, there is essentially zero deflection. That's right, zero. The proper washers are far thicker and harder than anything you'll get from hardware or even auto parts stores, so when Gomer uses plain washers, crap shifting results.
I found washers with an OD that fit in the recesses in the shifter. I slowly drilled 4 of these washers using locking pliers and a hand drill so that the ID would fit tightly around the trunion bolt shafts. The ID on the correct washers is a very tight fit. 2 on topside, 2 on bottom side, and two additional lock washers on the top side. I slightly extended the springs behind the shifter button things (trunnions) so that in the neutral position the shifter doesn't wiggle or anything, plus the firmer these springs are the more direct the shifter responds to your side to side movement.Perhaps they were damaged or worn, new ones are quite stiff.
One thing I do want to purchase new is the wave washer inside the control box right under the retaining bracket. I purposely bent mine in a few areas so that it would get some 'spring' back. I will try to find a replacement wave washer individually, because this washer serves a very important role in the function/feel of the shifter. For now my quick fix helped.
For where the linkage rods go through the shifter arms, there was fore/aft play I didn't like. By fore/aft I mean the play was forward and back relative to the transmission. I got 3 brass spacer thingies at the hardware store for $1.49 each. I cut them to length using snippers, and split them lengthwise so that they would fit over the linkage rods. They were just barely too small to fit over the rods without the lengthwise cut. The point of these spacers is that they fill in empty space that caused unnecessary play between the linkage and the shift shaft levers. This mod worked perfectly after I cleaned up the rods with a wire wheel and squeezed the rough edges of the spacer so that it would fit just right (not snug, room for slight movement) through the shift lever holes. I lubed these too.
Clever. I have done this with Hurst steel bushings, and/or a bit of welding and filing, but that's a good low-tech solution.
Lastly, my car had zero of the original curved washers that help hold the shift linkage in the proper position through the shift shaft arms. This also prevents vibration when driving because it holds the linkage against the shift arms. Again not wanting to have to spend $ ordering specialty washers, I didn't see why a normal compression spring cut to length wouldn't work. I picked up 2 springs for $3, cut them very short so that they would fit between a regular washer and the shift arm with a cotter pin installed. The trick is that the spring can't be at full compression when installed with the washer and cotter pin. This worked perfectly! The fore/aft rod play is probably 1/4 or less what it was before, and the springs hold the rods in perfect position.Not bad, but wavy washers are actually pretty cheap.
I spent $7.50 on the hardware and had everything else on hand. It is a lot better after this and I am pleased to say I will rock the stock shifter forever probably. Yes its still notchy, but with these transmissions I don't think there's a way around that.
I'm actually rather proud of my modifications even though they are simple ones. I really don't see the point of rebuild kits having so much in them when nearly everything is serviceable or reuseable. The only things I could see wearing out past the point of return are the curved washers, the wave washer inside the control box, the button springs, and the rubber shifter grommets which I eliminated. I highly recommend these small mods. I will be using compression springs for the control box side to, just didn't get to that today.
It's night and day compared to before, all the unwanted movement has been eliminated except for the wave washer being worn out under the control box retaining bracket. I was able to find some wave washers that should work, they are being shipped right now. Like I said before the rebuild kits would of had me paying for stuff I don't need.
Either the rods or the levers frontside were worn 2+2GT, but my bushing idea works great as does the cut springs replacing the curved washers. I am not an originality critic and am much more concerned with function and cost of something like this. Personally I don't think the rubber grommets are necessary as long as you have some type of washers that don't leave room for the bolts to move. This is why I used 4 of the washers I modified, 1 on top and bottom for each bolt. Made sure they fit tight in the recesses and around the bolt. The lock washers stacked on the tops of the modified washers holds everything still, and I have seen no problem with this other than the fact that modifying washers is not fun.
09-03-2010, 06:30 PM
4-speed shifter feel
It was bolted to the close-ratio toploader I picked up for $250, and after a rebuild it shifts as smoothly and precisely as I could imagine a toploader will ever shift.
