ninteen66mustang

After a long wait, I finally got my hands on a rebuilt 302, and I am in the process of swapping it in. Currently I am waiting on some parts to finish the job, but I have a question about a problem I ran in to...

After dropping in the engine, lining up the torque converter bolts with the flexplate, and bolting the engine to the bellhousing, I noticed that the torque converter bolts stick out far enough that they rub against the bellhousing spacer plate a little bit when the flexplate is rotated. This didn't appear to have happened with the 289, so I don't know what is wrong. I believe the new flexplate I ordered is correct for mating a 302 to a C4. The one I got is below:

https://www.mustangsunlimited.com/it...p?T1=36375L+01

Now, the friend who is helping me do the swap talked to another tech at the dealership he works at, who has restored quite a few mustangs in the past. He said that if the bolts still interfere, we can shave them off a bit to gain the clearance we need. This sounds sketchy to me, but I don't really see any specific reasons not to. Advice?

Also, any idea where I could find the various vacuum fittings that go in the intake? I need one that T's, and haven't had luck finding it online. Thanks!

groho

Are you sure your torque converter is fully seated? Its easy to miss the last drop that seats the unit. Unbolt the converter from the flex plate. Use a couple of old head bolts to keep the tranny and motor aligned while you seperate the two, then reach in and turn / seat the converter. you'll know when it's seated.

Stepman

I don't think it's an issue of the converter not being seated. How bad do they rub? It sounds more like the flex plate is too close to the motor. I can't see how it could be put on backwards so, I'm gonna go with...is there a spacer missing between the flex plate and the crank?

JMD

Might be a spacer, might be a flexplate issue, do you have the old parts to compare the new parts to?

This is a time where the importance of retaining of the old parts until the job is done becomes a real issue..

In any case, imo this is not a place to improvise by shaving the bolts down, because that **** should fit right, if it doesn't something needs to be fixed and/or changed, and done right in order to avoid other issues.

There are places where innovation is needed or even desirable, this is not one of those places.

I mostly agree with Stepman about the converter, except that if the converter is not seated right, and the bell is drawn (forced) against the engine with the bell housing bolts, the outside edge of the flexplate will be forced forward (bent) into the block.

I have seen that before, more than once.....

ninteen66mustang

I am fairly certain the torque converter is seated properly. It was left in place after the 289 was pulled. On top of that, as I visualize it, the torque converter bolts up against the flexplate, so having it not be seated would make it so the engine could not fully bolt to the bellhousing.

There was no spacer between the engine and flexplate on the 289. We have to pull the engine again to swap the oil pan, so I am sort of hoping it will just work out when we put it back together.

Any other ideas?

jonward786

Incorrect kind sir, it is absolutely possible to bolt up the converter to the flexplate and the bellhousing to the block without having it fully seated. I went through this very same nightmare a month or so back when i was putting my rebuilt 302 back in the 68. All the converter bolts lined up and the drain plug was also through its hole. everything bolted up fine. went to crank the engine and heard a horrible grinding noise. took inspection plate off, saw a ton of metal shavings. i then rotated the engine by hand and took note of where the plate was grinding.

long story short my converter had TWO drain plugs, and while one of them was lined up, the other plug was hidden behind the counterweight on the plate, pushing that edge of the plate out just enough so that the teeth would scrape as they went past the starter.

So i replaced my bellhousing bolts with 3.5" grade 8 bolts, slid the tranny back an inch or so so i could freely spin the converter, got it lined up properly and buttoned it all back up.

Is it a ****ty design to allow 5 of the 6 studs to line up but not the last one? absolutely but thats just the way it is. if your converter has 2 drain plugs there is only ONE correct way it can be bolted to the flexplate. i learned it the hard way, but you can bet ill never make that day wasting mistake again

ninteen66mustang

Okay, this is something new to me! I definitely didn't know there were drain plug holes to line up the torque converter with. Unless my friend knew that, I think we just lined up the bolts with the bolt holes of the flexplate. Could you elaborate a little more about the drain plug things? I see three larger holes in the flexplate picture online, is that where they go? Thanks!

jonward786

Yes sir, there are 4 smaller holes in the plate positioned at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock. those, as you know, are for the threaded studs on the converter to secure it to the plate via nuts. Now most converters have a drain plug, and some have 2 drain plugs positioned randomly on the converter. Yes, there are slightly larger holes in the plate for the drains to poke into. you can view them in the picture below. No one will be able to tell you how many drain plugs your converter has, it could be just 1, it could be 2, im not sure which is more common.



Assuming the engine is already in the car the easiest fix to this problem is to just slide the tranny back about and inch so you can separate the converter from the flexplate. this can be done by disconnecting the u-bolts at the differential end of the drive shaft, dropping the end of the drive shaft down, disconnecting all interfering linkages, like the hard vacuum line from engine to tranny and then putting some long (about 3.5") grade 8 bolts in place of your normal bellhousing bolts. they will act as a guide and you will be able to slide the tranny backwards on them, might have to pry it back with a screwdriver. then get under there with a marker, and rotate the converter by hand and mark the first drain plug, then keep rotating, as another plug might come around. once you're under there is will be much more obvious how to line it up.

Randys66gt

Like jonward786 said, it is possible to bolt it up even with the converter NOT seated. The converter MUST engage into the input shaft, (little one) the stator shaft, ( big thick one) and then the front pump which you cannot see looking at the trans. It is the 2 tags on the converter neck and YES, you can destroy the pump and converter by pulling the trans and engine together and running it. The flexplate you got is correct, just when you spin the converter to line it up, there are "3" holes to line up for the drain plugs, the other is blocked by the balance weight so just spin the converter to line it up. Like everyone says, use the bolts and pull the tranny back, can only go about 3 inches under the car and reseat the converter, "IT HAS TO ENGAGE 3 TIMES!!!" Good luck.

ninteen66mustang

Awesome, that picture is very helpful! Thanks so much. I have to pull the engine again anyways to replace the oil pan, so I will be sure to line it up correctly when we drop it back in. As far as seating the torque converter, is there a chance it became unseated after pulling the 289? Like I said before, we didn't do anything to the torque converter after pulling the 289 aside from spinning it... How would I know if it is seated properly or not?