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TCI IFS, 65 Coupe

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Old 11-14-2010, 01:52 PM   #1
femurphy77
 
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Default TCI IFS, 65 Coupe

This probably should go in the racing section but since there is so little action going on in the non-drag racing section I thought I'd start here. I'm building a 65 Coupe for SCCA Autocross in their C prepared class. I've been considering various options for a front suspension set up and am currently hashing over the virtues/drawbacks of the TCI IFS system.

I like knowing that it is a total package that has been engineered to work together, it inherently lowers the front end of the car, it is available with HUGE front brakes, compact, fairly easy install etc., etc.

Many of the reviews I've read on it say that it isn nothing more than a glorified Mustang II design which according to their ads, it isn't. I'm formulating a list of questions for them so I haven't spoken directly to them yet but plan to.

Anybody here have any experience with their stuff? How do you like it? What would you change about it?

I'm not interested in any of the kits that converts the stock front end to coilovers as part of my build includes removing the inner fenders.

Something that is also getting consideration is C4 or C5 'vette front suspension similar to what another forum member is using although I would fab mounting points for the suspension components rather than adapting the entire front crossmember due to weight considerations.

I'm currently in the research stage and haven't commited anything more than time to this project so lets hear what you have to say.


p.s. Why is there a Z28 icon in the smilies menu?
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Last edited by femurphy77; 11-14-2010 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:41 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by femurphy77 View Post
This probably should go in the racing section but since there is so little action going on in the non-drag racing section I thought I'd start here. I'm building a 65 Coupe for SCCA Autocross in their C prepared class. I've been considering various options for a front suspension set up and am currently hashing over the virtues/drawbacks of the TCI IFS system.

I like knowing that it is a total package that has been engineered to work together, it inherently lowers the front end of the car, it is available with HUGE front brakes, compact, fairly easy install etc., etc.

Many of the reviews I've read on it say that it isn nothing more than a glorified Mustang II design which according to their ads, it isn't. I formulating a list of questions for them so I haven't spoken directly to them yet but plan to.

Anybody here have any experience with their stuff? How do you like it? What would you change about it?

I'm not interested in any of the kits that converts the stock front end to coilovers as part of my build includes removing the inner fenders.

Something that is also getting consideration is C4 or C5 'vette front suspension similar to what another forum member is using although I would fab mounting points for the suspension components rather than adapting the entire front crossmember due to weight considerations.

I'm currently in the research stage and haven't commited anything more than time to this project so lets hear what you have to say.


p.s. Why is ther a Z28 icon in the smilies menu?
I have a TCI frame in my avitar, my guess is that their suspension has roots in the old Mustang II stuff, but it is so far removed as to bear little resemblance to anything M-2.

I looked at the TCI website, and from what I can see the suspension you are looking at is very similar to what they used on my frame.

I have not had the pleasure of getting up to speed in my car yet, but from tooling around the lot I am impressed.

As far as the quality of parts and workmanship I have to give a big thumbs up to TCI for delivering an excellent product with not a single "issue" of any kind.

That is all I have....

We need NORM PETERSON for some better answers concerning the SCCA racing....

The Z-28 is a patriotic thing, kind of a tribute to Government Motors....
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Last edited by JMD; 11-14-2010 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:44 PM   #3
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Before you start going into radical front end mods, I'd suggest looking at Street or Track Racing's tubular front end setup. Very nice system.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:53 PM   #4
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Before you start modding stuff, get the rule book for the class you're planning on racing in to make sure of allowed modifications. Otherwise you'll waste a ton of money.

Cheapest route is boxed stock front components with proper race springs/shocks. A properly balanced and set up stock type front end, will outhandle a high dollar aftermarket setup that's thrown in and only sorted to a mediocre level.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:23 AM   #5
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The spindles are mustang 2 the upper a arms are gm design like the camaro and novas used but smaller.You need to look up there rules on that class changing the front suspension might move you in to a class you won't like will be harder to win at.To me i wouldn't use there kit just because it does the same thing the mustang 2 kits do.If money is no problem you can have a full frame http://www.gmachinechassis.com/ or http://www.griggsracing.com/ both are pricey tho.
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:17 AM   #6
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The griggs stuff is definitely sweet but not $10k worth for my project. I looked at the gmachine stuff some time back but will have to give another look to jog the memory. As for the rules, I am familiar with them and everything I want to do is legal for my class. I used to race SCCA Cp Solo II some time back but started this project, life got in the way, project back-burnered and now it's time to get it back on course.

Until I see TCIs numbers as far as camber curves, bumpsteer,ackerman, roll center, etc. I am not set on them, just giving them consideration.

I hadn't heard of Street or Track Racing yet but will check them out today.

I'm not looking for the "coolest" looking setup, I'm looking for bang for the buck and am giving engineered systems precedent over throwing parts from different manufacturers together and hoping that it'll turn.

Just checked out Gmachines, very cool but illegal for my class.

Last edited by femurphy77; 11-15-2010 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:11 AM   #7
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Pass. Did a MII front end for a 52 Chevy with one of their kits because it came highly recommended. Arms were welded too hot and undercut at the welds. The cross member was made wrong and when I told them and showed them pictures they didn't want to hear it. The arms were pushed too far forward and nothing but a coil over with a hiem would have fit. Which we had. Their recommendation was to just install it and let the hiem take up the angle. The shock was leaning back because the arm was about 1-1.5 inches too far forward iirc. It took 3 companies (Mine, the guy I bought it from, and the one that told me I should buy it) 3 weeks to finally get it done right. Complete waste of time and money. Never again.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:02 AM   #8
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Well street or track kit is a bolt on kit http://www.streetortrack.com/Street-...-pr-24491.html unless your going to run a big block or a mod motor there is no need to cut out the shock towers.I have drove a couple early mustangs with a mustang 2 kit and to me it handled worse then the wore out stock parts the cars had before.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:46 AM   #9
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MII front ends were designed for mass production, not performance. You can prefab the whole assembly then slap it up under the car. MUCH cheaper to assemble than factory suspension in terms of labor. That's why cars converted to MII suspension handle worse.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:59 AM   #10
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Its a upgrade for a older car with a straight axle but something already ifs its a down grade.
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:19 AM   #11
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I can't say much about the Mustang kit, I have never seen one, but as far as my TCI frame goes, there is virtually no resemblance to a MII, and it all lines up...

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by femurphy77 View Post
I'm not interested in any of the kits that converts the stock front end to coilovers as part of my build includes removing the inner fenders.
CP allows quite a bit of chassis structure modification before you get into an "in excess" situation that buys you a weight penalty. You shouldn't have to retain the original sheetmetal in order to put a C/O chassis side pickup in more or less the same place, and you're going to have to add some structure there anyway.

I'm pretty sure that the TCI stuff has been evaluated elsewhere. I'll see what I can find.

But looking at the 2008 Solo Nationals results, the top Z06 (in SS) was running in the same second as the winning CP time, on R-comps vs real slicks, which might suggest a C5-based design.


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Old 11-16-2010, 11:03 AM   #13
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If you are feeling a little adventurous I would say go with the corvette C4 suspension swap. I wish I had some actual drive time on my suspension but I can at least say something about the fabrication side. The front end literally drops in between the frame rails. I used alignment tools to get my camber angle right but really just squaring it up in the frame should get you within a few degrees and then the alignment shop will get you the rest. for less than 1k you could have big breaks, aluminum control, arms power rack, etc. Then spend the money you saved from buying a 2k plus M-II kit and put some coilovers in if you really want (i am choosing to keep the stock spring).

http://mustangforums.com/forum/class...mustang-4.html

But I agree with 67mustang302

Quote:
Before you start modding stuff, get the rule book for the class you're planning on racing in to make sure of allowed modifications. Otherwise you'll waste a ton of money.
and if you don't want to do a lot of modding this wouldn't be a bad rout.

Quote:
Cheapest route is boxed stock front components with proper race springs/shocks.
There are a lot of power rack steering assemblies you can buy too that are bolt in but they are pricey usually in the 1k plus rang.
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:33 PM   #14
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A negative side to the C4/5 install that I have been told by people that race them is that the front hubs tend to go away relatively quickly in any class where big slicks are used. To the tune of one set of hubs per season. The last time I replaced hubs on the C4 I used to have they were around $165 each. There is supposed to be a kit that allows you to replace wheel bearings instead of the whole hub and it is in the $800 range.

Unfortunately there is no silver bullet; all possible solutions will have drawbacks if you look deep enough. Thank Al Gore for the internet, it helps to confuse the issue even more! But keep those cards and letters coming this is all good input.

I'm hoping to stop at MustangOnes shop in Oklahoma the next time I'm down that way and crossing my fingers that he has a TCI install in progress so I can see and assess in person.

FBconvert, can't wait to see your completed install. I haven't been able to access your photos you posted in response to a couple of my questions. Seems my work computer and home computer both have an attitude about those particular photos.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:37 PM   #15
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Keep in mind that there are several big advantages to staying with stock type configurations. Like we mentioned, cost is the big one. But the other is that there are MANY people who race on stock type setups, and places like Cobra Automotive, Opentracker etc who have a TON of experience with it. Multiple KNOWN configurations, so there's a ton of low cost parts AND KNOWLEDGE of those configurations. It makes it much easier to set a chassis up, since there's a lot less groping around in the dark trying to get everything working right.

And I don't know how good of a driver you are, but most people are WAY better off spending less money on suspension and taking the $$$ saved and using it for performance driving lessons, since most people actually do NOT know how to drive through a turn(even though they think they do). No offense meant, just being realistic. If you look at the fastest guys out there around tracks in their class, most of the top guys are running simpler setups but are good drivers. Amazing suspension packages are nice and all, but they're no replacement for good driving and good tires.

And think of it this way too, it takes you a wile to feel your car out and run it to the limits. It's like guys that go out and buy 1,300cc Suzuki Hyabusas only to get absolutely stomped buy some guy on a 660cc bike. The slower bike has a faster rider. And often the guy on the 660, once he learns to ride that bike to it's limits, realizes he doesn't need anything faster. So too with a car. Spend the least amount of money on a setup, and invest in driving skill....learn to drive the car to it's absolute limits. Once you get to a point where you can drive the wheels off your car, you may find you are as fast or faster than the top guys in your class(at which point you ARE one of the top guys). You'll have saved a ton of money that you can invest elsewhere....brakes, tires etc.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:37 PM
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