Another engine and tranny combo thread....
03-03-2011, 04:07 PM
#81
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: tn
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the cam drive pin comes in different lengths depending on which fuel pump eccentric is used.
long (approx 1.4") for 1 piece. short (aprox 1.12") for 2 piece eccentric.
does pin length look correct?
was washer tight against eccentric?
long (approx 1.4") for 1 piece. short (aprox 1.12") for 2 piece eccentric.
does pin length look correct?
was washer tight against eccentric?
Last edited by 001mustang; 03-03-2011 at 04:11 PM.
03-03-2011, 09:23 PM
#82
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Location: Madison, Georgia
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glad you connecting rod caps are stamped...was worried when i 1st saw pic.
i'd like to see if all cam lobes have similar wear.
new retainer may be from one trying to fix a ticker.
sometimes galley or PR gets a clot and restricts oil flow.
flat tappet cam does not side load retaining plate much.
did the cam retaining thrust plate bolts wiggle loose?
a low profile bolt head is required to prevent interference w/ cam sprocket.
i'd like to see if all cam lobes have similar wear.
new retainer may be from one trying to fix a ticker.
sometimes galley or PR gets a clot and restricts oil flow.
flat tappet cam does not side load retaining plate much.
did the cam retaining thrust plate bolts wiggle loose?
a low profile bolt head is required to prevent interference w/ cam sprocket.
And I think you're exactly right. Now I remember he said "one of the valves ticks" and pointed at the number 5 cylinder. AHA!
No, the cam thrust plate (was wondering what the word for that piece was, lol) was tight, both bolts.
And both bolts are low profile, if that's what you're asking.
If I remember correctly it too was tight. But I'll need to measure it to tell you the length.
And thanks again for pointing out the name for that part, didn't know it either.
03-03-2011, 09:58 PM
#83
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: tn
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verify cam drive pin does not interfere w/ washer on 1 piece eccentric or tab on 2 piece eccentric. pin must be long enough to get a good purchase on cam sprocket.
verify cam end play is between 0.001 and 0.007"; very easy w/ feeler gauge.
did you check lifters for cupping?
pretty easy to measure cam lobe lift b4 removing cam bearings w/ a dial indicator. can get pretty close w/ ruler. good way to ID actual cam grind and check for worn lobes. if any plans to reuse cam u can use degree wheel to measure lift at 0.006", 0,05" and peak.
if a lifter was sludged it is possible lifter bore and rocker not properly lubed. can do a quick rough lifter wiggle test while removing lifters. may not be a bad idea to check the bore and lifter on 5 (new retainer). u can use any sbf lifter new or old for quick check.
don't forget to properly secure all oil galley plugs.
verify cam end play is between 0.001 and 0.007"; very easy w/ feeler gauge.
did you check lifters for cupping?
pretty easy to measure cam lobe lift b4 removing cam bearings w/ a dial indicator. can get pretty close w/ ruler. good way to ID actual cam grind and check for worn lobes. if any plans to reuse cam u can use degree wheel to measure lift at 0.006", 0,05" and peak.
if a lifter was sludged it is possible lifter bore and rocker not properly lubed. can do a quick rough lifter wiggle test while removing lifters. may not be a bad idea to check the bore and lifter on 5 (new retainer). u can use any sbf lifter new or old for quick check.
don't forget to properly secure all oil galley plugs.
03-05-2011, 11:15 PM
#84
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: tn
Posts: 889
if your cam dowel pin is not too long then your cam sprocket may be too thick.
cam sprockets are thicker on 2 piece eccentric version and on 5.0 version.
i am in process of upgrading my timing chain set and its a lil tough to find dimensions b4 order.
cam sprockets are thicker on 2 piece eccentric version and on 5.0 version.
i am in process of upgrading my timing chain set and its a lil tough to find dimensions b4 order.
03-07-2011, 12:25 PM
#85
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,643
verify cam drive pin does not interfere w/ washer on 1 piece eccentric or tab on 2 piece eccentric. pin must be long enough to get a good purchase on cam sprocket.
verify cam end play is between 0.001 and 0.007"; very easy w/ feeler gauge.
did you check lifters for cupping?
pretty easy to measure cam lobe lift b4 removing cam bearings w/ a dial indicator. can get pretty close w/ ruler. good way to ID actual cam grind and check for worn lobes. if any plans to reuse cam u can use degree wheel to measure lift at 0.006", 0,05" and peak.
if a lifter was sludged it is possible lifter bore and rocker not properly lubed. can do a quick rough lifter wiggle test while removing lifters. may not be a bad idea to check the bore and lifter on 5 (new retainer). u can use any sbf lifter new or old for quick check.
don't forget to properly secure all oil galley plugs.
verify cam end play is between 0.001 and 0.007"; very easy w/ feeler gauge.
did you check lifters for cupping?
pretty easy to measure cam lobe lift b4 removing cam bearings w/ a dial indicator. can get pretty close w/ ruler. good way to ID actual cam grind and check for worn lobes. if any plans to reuse cam u can use degree wheel to measure lift at 0.006", 0,05" and peak.
if a lifter was sludged it is possible lifter bore and rocker not properly lubed. can do a quick rough lifter wiggle test while removing lifters. may not be a bad idea to check the bore and lifter on 5 (new retainer). u can use any sbf lifter new or old for quick check.
don't forget to properly secure all oil galley plugs.
Should I just drop a lifter in there to check? I've got a set of lifters for a 351w that I can test fit with.
And I'm having trouble with the plugs, I'm going to try to heat the plugs today to break them loose, I hope they don't strip!
Thanks for this advice mustang001. I've learned a few things just since you've asked a few questions, haha.
Pictures of the block:
Pistons:
Block Numbers:
Crank:
Only the oil plugs left and it's off to the machine shop! (still need to find a good shop, haha)
03-07-2011, 01:07 PM
#86
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: tn
Posts: 889
your eccentric is 1 piece but i can't see cam gear face to see if it is 2 piece gear face.
since cam gears come in different thicknesses you must verify cam dowel pin is proper length by trial fit once you get new timing set.
when installing timing set u must verify block clearance and timing cover clearance so you don't eat up timing cover again.
must verify cam to crank center line if you wanna to be sure timing set will fit properly.
yeah...key word...heat the plug...not the block...i just did similar operation to aluminum intake yesterday...works perfect...don't over heat it...i heat plug...try...heat plug more...try...it will come out easy.
can just use any ol sbf lifters for quick rough check.
since cam gears come in different thicknesses you must verify cam dowel pin is proper length by trial fit once you get new timing set.
when installing timing set u must verify block clearance and timing cover clearance so you don't eat up timing cover again.
must verify cam to crank center line if you wanna to be sure timing set will fit properly.
yeah...key word...heat the plug...not the block...i just did similar operation to aluminum intake yesterday...works perfect...don't over heat it...i heat plug...try...heat plug more...try...it will come out easy.
can just use any ol sbf lifters for quick rough check.
03-08-2011, 08:24 AM
#87
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,643
your eccentric is 1 piece but i can't see cam gear face to see if it is 2 piece gear face.
since cam gears come in different thicknesses you must verify cam dowel pin is proper length by trial fit once you get new timing set.
when installing timing set u must verify block clearance and timing cover clearance so you don't eat up timing cover again.
must verify cam to crank center line if you wanna to be sure timing set will fit properly.
yeah...key word...heat the plug...not the block...i just did similar operation to aluminum intake yesterday...works perfect...don't over heat it...i heat plug...try...heat plug more...try...it will come out easy.
can just use any ol sbf lifters for quick rough check.
since cam gears come in different thicknesses you must verify cam dowel pin is proper length by trial fit once you get new timing set.
when installing timing set u must verify block clearance and timing cover clearance so you don't eat up timing cover again.
must verify cam to crank center line if you wanna to be sure timing set will fit properly.
yeah...key word...heat the plug...not the block...i just did similar operation to aluminum intake yesterday...works perfect...don't over heat it...i heat plug...try...heat plug more...try...it will come out easy.
can just use any ol sbf lifters for quick rough check.
And I'm going to try the plugs today, wish me luck, haha.
Alright, so I picked up some goodies this past weekend. I think I'm well on my way to my engine rebuild with these parts:
Edelbrock Performer Intake:
Pedestal Roller Rockers:
Nice Chrome Front Sump Oil Pan:
Flywheel (not sure on the tooth count) and Motorcraft carb (think it's a 600):
Full gasket set, pistons rings, cam and engine bearings, stainless bolt set for the top end:
Valve Covers and spider lifter cover:
Both timing sets, Dog Bone Lifters, 302 Roller cam:
Water and Oil Pump:
New .040 over pistons and refurbished rods with new rod bolts in:
This was a good deal, brand new 351w heads. The other one is still sealed in the box. Completely stock so I'm not sure I'll use then but then again I don't need to do ANY work on them, so it might be an easy way out if I need to save $$$.
This deal I scored helped a lot with picking up little odds and ends, so I'm happy.
03-08-2011, 09:18 AM
#88
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: tn
Posts: 889
i have 2181 351W performer intake.
has more volume and longer runners than eddy 2121 289/302 version and i suspect it flows/mixes better
but don't have flow numbers to back it up.
with 2181 i would shoot for max power around roughly 5000rpm.
can just clear OEM air cleaner under stock hood; must verify.
clears eddy drop cleaner easy.
i just glass bead blasted mine and it looks new.
what ratio are rocker arms?
rocker arm studs are adjustable 3/8"?
rocker arms not rail type so you will need chrome moly push rods and guide plates.
chrome oil pan purty...i would consider roughing up sealing surface so RTV can stick?
can measure carb venturis to verify carb cfm. 600cfm will again encourage max power roughly 5000rpm.
ARP piston rod bolts are a popular upgrade when using stock pistons.
whats that...new pistons....huh...dang.
must verify if VC will clear RR; may be shopping for another VC.
dog bone has pros and cons. I would tap hole for dog bone BEFORE installing cam bearings.
you can later switch to flat tappet or roller as heart desires.
i didn't look up ur timing sets.
they will determine which eccentric must be used.
different sets really differ in durability.
what are cam specs? Better do a mockup fit BEFORE removing old cam bearings. may need small base circle as you know.
those heads are purty.
i'd use the crap out of them.
leads to max hp under 5000rpm w/ awesome off idle torque and 100,000+ mile durability using gas saving rear end.
I would pull a spring and check seat pressure and rate; very easy and cheap.
i would consider DIY mild head port matching.
what size valves ... 1.84/1.54?
surprise surprise i like it...your hardware called me...it was asking something about a mild cam...what...huh...
has more volume and longer runners than eddy 2121 289/302 version and i suspect it flows/mixes better
but don't have flow numbers to back it up.
with 2181 i would shoot for max power around roughly 5000rpm.
can just clear OEM air cleaner under stock hood; must verify.
clears eddy drop cleaner easy.
i just glass bead blasted mine and it looks new.
what ratio are rocker arms?
rocker arm studs are adjustable 3/8"?
rocker arms not rail type so you will need chrome moly push rods and guide plates.
chrome oil pan purty...i would consider roughing up sealing surface so RTV can stick?
can measure carb venturis to verify carb cfm. 600cfm will again encourage max power roughly 5000rpm.
ARP piston rod bolts are a popular upgrade when using stock pistons.
whats that...new pistons....huh...dang.
must verify if VC will clear RR; may be shopping for another VC.
dog bone has pros and cons. I would tap hole for dog bone BEFORE installing cam bearings.
you can later switch to flat tappet or roller as heart desires.
i didn't look up ur timing sets.
they will determine which eccentric must be used.
different sets really differ in durability.
what are cam specs? Better do a mockup fit BEFORE removing old cam bearings. may need small base circle as you know.
those heads are purty.
i'd use the crap out of them.
leads to max hp under 5000rpm w/ awesome off idle torque and 100,000+ mile durability using gas saving rear end.
I would pull a spring and check seat pressure and rate; very easy and cheap.
i would consider DIY mild head port matching.
what size valves ... 1.84/1.54?
surprise surprise i like it...your hardware called me...it was asking something about a mild cam...what...huh...
03-08-2011, 10:32 AM
#89
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,643
i have 2181 351W performer intake.
has more volume and longer runners than eddy 2121 289/302 version and i suspect it flows/mixes better
but don't have flow numbers to back it up.
with 2181 i would shoot for max power around roughly 5000rpm.
can just clear OEM air cleaner under stock hood; must verify.
clears eddy drop cleaner easy.
i just glass bead blasted mine and it looks new.
what ratio are rocker arms?
rocker arm studs are adjustable 3/8"?
rocker arms not rail type so you will need chrome moly push rods and guide plates.
chrome oil pan purty...i would consider roughing up sealing surface so RTV can stick?
can measure carb venturis to verify carb cfm. 600cfm will again encourage max power roughly 5000rpm.
ARP piston rod bolts are a popular upgrade when using stock pistons.
whats that...new pistons....huh...dang.
must verify if VC will clear RR; may be shopping for another VC.
dog bone has pros and cons. I would tap hole for dog bone BEFORE installing cam bearings.
you can later switch to flat tappet or roller as heart desires.
i didn't look up ur timing sets.
they will determine which eccentric must be used.
different sets really differ in durability.
what are cam specs? Better do a mockup fit BEFORE removing old cam bearings. may need small base circle as you know.
those heads are purty.
i'd use the crap out of them.
leads to max hp under 5000rpm w/ awesome off idle torque and 100,000+ mile durability using gas saving rear end.
I would pull a spring and check seat pressure and rate; very easy and cheap.
i would consider DIY mild head port matching.
what size valves ... 1.84/1.54?
surprise surprise i like it...your hardware called me...it was asking something about a mild cam...what...huh...
has more volume and longer runners than eddy 2121 289/302 version and i suspect it flows/mixes better
but don't have flow numbers to back it up.
with 2181 i would shoot for max power around roughly 5000rpm.
can just clear OEM air cleaner under stock hood; must verify.
clears eddy drop cleaner easy.
i just glass bead blasted mine and it looks new.
what ratio are rocker arms?
rocker arm studs are adjustable 3/8"?
rocker arms not rail type so you will need chrome moly push rods and guide plates.
chrome oil pan purty...i would consider roughing up sealing surface so RTV can stick?
can measure carb venturis to verify carb cfm. 600cfm will again encourage max power roughly 5000rpm.
ARP piston rod bolts are a popular upgrade when using stock pistons.
whats that...new pistons....huh...dang.
must verify if VC will clear RR; may be shopping for another VC.
dog bone has pros and cons. I would tap hole for dog bone BEFORE installing cam bearings.
you can later switch to flat tappet or roller as heart desires.
i didn't look up ur timing sets.
they will determine which eccentric must be used.
different sets really differ in durability.
what are cam specs? Better do a mockup fit BEFORE removing old cam bearings. may need small base circle as you know.
those heads are purty.
i'd use the crap out of them.
leads to max hp under 5000rpm w/ awesome off idle torque and 100,000+ mile durability using gas saving rear end.
I would pull a spring and check seat pressure and rate; very easy and cheap.
i would consider DIY mild head port matching.
what size valves ... 1.84/1.54?
surprise surprise i like it...your hardware called me...it was asking something about a mild cam...what...huh...
I'm not sure on the ratio, I think it's either 1.6 or 1.7. I just emailed the guy to ask what the ratio is. Pushrods are something I need to pick out as well. Those are one of the few things I didn't get...
What kind of chromemoly push rods should I get. I saw TFS pushrods but if I can save a few bucks I'll go with something else.
Also, any specific guide plates I need or can I just get generic brand?
I'll scuff up the lip of the pan to help the seal. Not like anybody would see that part of the pan, haha.
I've got a Holley 600 CFM as well, should I go with the motorcraft or Holley?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge (heck you're teaching me half this stuff
) but what do you mean by VC and RR? I'm sure I know what it is, I don't get the abbreviation though. As for the lifters, I'm probably not going to use the dog bone. I was recommened by the fellow with the kit to use linked hydralic lifters and therefore I could use the roller cam he gave me.
Here's what he recommended:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...Q5fAccessories
I'm sure I could splurge a little more on linked hydralic lifters, that's just the cheapest one we found.
I'm assuming the cam is out of a 302 HO motor, where can I find specs for that? Is there a way I can measure it myself without a specialty tool?
I'll probably go with those heads then if you think they're a good idea. I'll measure the port when I get home. And the DIY head porting sounds like a good idea, I just took a look at it and I like the idea.
And finally, should I swap to a mild cam? Would it be worthwhile over this 302 roller?
Thanks for all your help mustang001, this is helping me cover every little detail so I don't miss them. And I'm learning so much!
Last edited by hightower2011; 03-08-2011 at 10:40 AM.
03-08-2011, 10:39 AM
#90
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: tn
Posts: 889
test fit timing chain after block assembled.
can do a cam end play check b4 installing cam. make sure cam thrust retaining plate and any spacer/bearing is material compatible w/ cam gear.
be very careful w/ block align-bore; done improperly can cost you dearly.
do your home work on rocker geometry before ordering hardened push rods. Consider future cam choices, lash caps, and RA ratios when picking PR length.
w/ next order you can get $3 checking springs. a solid lifter same length as your hydraulic would be a luxury and may be feasible on flat tappet application. probably overkill on mild roller app.
verify heads don't have cast in PR guides before installing PR guides.
consider DIY clearance grinding of heads to accommodate future 1.5 and 1.7 RA; this will give you future valve train performance options.
please use standard volume and standard pressure oil pump to avoid serious problems. Can do some DIY oil pump flow performance tweeking.
can do a cam end play check b4 installing cam. make sure cam thrust retaining plate and any spacer/bearing is material compatible w/ cam gear.
be very careful w/ block align-bore; done improperly can cost you dearly.
do your home work on rocker geometry before ordering hardened push rods. Consider future cam choices, lash caps, and RA ratios when picking PR length.
w/ next order you can get $3 checking springs. a solid lifter same length as your hydraulic would be a luxury and may be feasible on flat tappet application. probably overkill on mild roller app.
verify heads don't have cast in PR guides before installing PR guides.
consider DIY clearance grinding of heads to accommodate future 1.5 and 1.7 RA; this will give you future valve train performance options.
please use standard volume and standard pressure oil pump to avoid serious problems. Can do some DIY oil pump flow performance tweeking.