Originally Posted by kylehamilton79

I've been looking at this block for when I build a 347.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-150110/

Can't beat the price for a block that has all the machining done. It's not a 4-bolt block but I'm not too concerned for my build. The last time I used a machine shop it was $900 and that was for a stock rebuild on a 400. Most of the stroker rotating assemblies are in the $1,400 and up range, plus about the same price for most heads ($900 and up). You're at $3500 right there before intake, carb, fuel pump, pulleys, belts, distributor, valve covers, starter, alternator etc. (unless you already have all that) Best of luck. Sounds like it's gonna be a sweet ride.

Originally Posted by 67mustang302

Look at race teams, they don't finish testing on the dyno. The baseline a setup on the dyno then tune it based on track results. Dynos don't load engines the way they're going to be loaded irl, so a combination that works on a dyno may or may not work well in real application. Even Formula 1 designers who have some of the most sophisticated dyno setups on Earth, that can load the engine to account for any particular track and transmission, still base most of their changes off actual vehicle performance.

All a dyno tells you is torque output on a dyno. It can't tell you how fast the engine will accelerate in gear in a car with a given tire. It can't tell you how responsive the engine will be in gear in a car with throttle position changes. And sometimes(especially with carb'd setups) the fuel ratio and timing the engine wants on a dyno are different than in the real world. An intake or exhaust that gives great dyno numbers might make a car lazy or unresponsive.

This is from an article on Pro Systems site, to give you an example of how dynos can be extremely misleading....

"Eddy current and water brake dyno collected data is interesting information and are a good baseline for tuning (Inertia type dynos like the ones built by Mike Laws are just incredible and are the exception to this next statement), BUT racetrack collected data can sometimes be so wildly different than the dyno it's scary. But high end racetrack data collection systems that have the ability to collect this data are so incredibly sensitive and expensive that only the highest end operations can afford them. But the data you get from them is just incredible.

Let me give you an example: In high end race engines that burn let's say 400 lbs/hr of fuel at torque peak, on the dyno, simply adding or taking away 20 lbs/hr of fuel will dramatically hurt the power output of that engine. Yet on the race track some of these engines draw in and REQUIRE sometimes an EXTRA 100 lbs/hr of fuel to get going down the track. 100 lbs!! Thats AMAZING when you think about it...that would normally cause big misfires or knock the plugs right out during a pull on the dyno. These same engines, that on the dyno will get fussy about 1/2 degree of timing will LOVE 2-3 degrees thrown in them in the lower gears and the bottom of every shift on the racetrack. But without the equipment to map that data or even perform these operations, you will never know these facts, unless you have this high end acquisition. "

Sometimes dynos help, sometimes they hurt. But the only thing certain about them, is they are inconsistent....or consistently unreliable. That's why anyone who's been around automotive performance long enough has seen plenty of cars that have setups that show low dyno numbers, but constantly outperform other setups that show high dyno numbers.

The ONLY thing dynos should be used for, is to tune baselines on a given combination, to get you into the ballpark for fuel/ignition. Then you fine tune for best performance. Or you can use them for internal component engineering, to test for reliability under load and rpm. But you don't use dyno numbers to pick parts for a combination, you use what's proven to work to pick parts for a combination.

Originally Posted by Dennis Marks

I am very grateful for your information and your time. Thanks for sharing and keeping it simple. Looking at keeping it real simple and just rebuilding the bottom and adding the Edlebrock top end kit so everything will work without my guesswork and lack of technical knowledge. That should keep it around $3000 and over 300 hp which I have decided is about all I need. I would love to stroke it, but that is a lot more $ and a lot more hp. How do the internet builders build over 300 hp for about the same $ I am looking at spending and doing it myself? Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Dennis Marks

Got a 1980 302 in it now. I am not sure what year roller motors came out. Any idea what the first year was?

Originally Posted by Dennis Marks

What adjustments/modifications has to be made to put a roller in my 1980 block?

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Pushrods - I doubt that the so-called "conversion" roller lifters could use the OE-length flat-tappet pushrods, and maybe not the later OE roller pushrods either. However, availability shouldn't be all that difficult.

I don't remember if these small Ford engines would need a cam thrust button for controlling endplay (last time I had one apart was over 15 years ago). Roller cams are ground differently than flat-tappet cams and as a result do not have the endplay control that the slightly tapered lobes of a flat tappet cam provide. Not a big deal in terms of cost or difficulty, but one that you do need to know about.

A roller cam isn't ground from the same material as flat-tappet cams, so it ends up with different requirements for distributor gear materials. Unless the cam itself comes with a separate (cast) gear installed on it (some do or at least did).


Norm

Originally Posted by OCHOHILL

With all due respect Mr. Peterson,
You never know the pushrod length until it's checked after final assembly. I never assume a stock pushrod length. I always assume buying an aftermarket set.