347 carb question 65 mustang
03-23-2011, 08:32 PM
#21
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: So. California
Posts: 2,258
Well I have decided to go with a 347 stroker motor for my 65 fastback. I am wanting to get opinions on which model number and Holley carb I should use on it. I have a 650 but I am being told that it won't be enough. This is a daily driver street racer. Here is my set up....
347 block
Pro Comp Heads
Ford racing E303 cam
Performer RPM intake
Hipo K code exhaust manifolds
Top loader 4 speed
3.00 rear end
Pro Comp electronic distributor
347 block
Pro Comp Heads
Ford racing E303 cam
Performer RPM intake
Hipo K code exhaust manifolds
Top loader 4 speed
3.00 rear end
Pro Comp electronic distributor
The 650 will be plenty big for that setup. No need to buy bigger.
03-24-2011, 02:38 AM
#22
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: U.S.
Posts: 216
Not if it's built wrong.
First, if you get a custom cam it'll be set up for the parts you use, including exhaust. A cam ground for hipo manifolds will have a way different profile than one ground for headers. It's going to have to try an compensate for a ridiculously restrictive exhaust system and prolly end up with tons of exhaust duration. Then if you put headers on later, you're going to have way to much exhaust on your cam.
Second, the hipo manifolds are going to be so restrictive, you're not going to benefit much from the heads, cam etc. If you can't get exhaust out of the cylinder, you can't get fresh air/fuel charge in. Those manifolds are fine on a 289/302 with stock or modified stock heads and a small cam, but will absolutely destroy the power potential on a built 302 and especially a 347. Efficiency will drop like a rock, you'll have exhaust contaminated fuel/air charge in the cylinder, and the power will be crap, it will get bad mileage, and may even run hot or detonate.
As far as headers not fitting right, you can't buy cheap headers and expect quality. Flange warpage and leaks are a result of inferior quality headers. You pay $130 for headers, you get $130 headers. You pay $600 for headers, you get $600 headers. Some brands fit better, some brands are better quality, some are stupid expensive and not even that great, but for the most part, you get what you pay for. The Doug's I have in mine went in once, got tightened once at installation, and that was it....no leaks, no warpage(their flanges are huge), no problems.
And as for traction control, it's called keep your foot off the throttle. You are not going to build an engine that controls tire spin at lower rpm without building an engine that's really inefficient at low rpm....which means poor performance and poor mileage. It will drive like crap and suck tons of fuel. My 302 has a custom cam ground for 3,000-6,500rpm best torque, with good response and power in the 2k rpm range.....even not being tuned right yet, it still rapes tires under 3k rpm. And it's a 302, not a 347.
As far as the Pro Comp heads, when they came out there were tons of threads all over this forum, mainly in the 5.0 section(and other forums) about complete horror stories. People with first hand experience and photos of intake port walls so thin they broke through into pushrod holes, guide failures etc. Think about it, how do you think Pro Comp can sell a head for half the price of their competitor without using low quality materials etc? The newer ones may be better, but the general consensus is spend the money to get a better head. If you want to run one that's up to you, but it is a bit of a gamble. That and the Pro Comp heads aren't as well developed, and virtually every other "smaller" head like the smaller port AFR, Edelbrock, TFS etc heads always outperform them.
Just be aware, if you build the 347 you're talking about the way you stated, it's going to perform like crap, get bad mileage, and you'll be getting raped by 302's all the time. You'll end up wasting a ton of money.
If you stick those heads on a 302(make sure their thoroughly inspected before being assembled with good parts, don't use any of their valves, guides etc) with a good custom hyd roller cam, and a decent exhaust(basic quality headers, x pipe etc), you'll spend the same amount of money(maybe even less) and have an engine that performs WAY better than a 347 with the same heads, hipo manifolds and a small cam.
traction is ALWAYS going to be a problem on well built engines. Modern engine technology can make tons of power from off idle to over 6k rpm quite easily. Run huge tires and/or learn to control your right foot.
First, if you get a custom cam it'll be set up for the parts you use, including exhaust. A cam ground for hipo manifolds will have a way different profile than one ground for headers. It's going to have to try an compensate for a ridiculously restrictive exhaust system and prolly end up with tons of exhaust duration. Then if you put headers on later, you're going to have way to much exhaust on your cam.
Second, the hipo manifolds are going to be so restrictive, you're not going to benefit much from the heads, cam etc. If you can't get exhaust out of the cylinder, you can't get fresh air/fuel charge in. Those manifolds are fine on a 289/302 with stock or modified stock heads and a small cam, but will absolutely destroy the power potential on a built 302 and especially a 347. Efficiency will drop like a rock, you'll have exhaust contaminated fuel/air charge in the cylinder, and the power will be crap, it will get bad mileage, and may even run hot or detonate.
As far as headers not fitting right, you can't buy cheap headers and expect quality. Flange warpage and leaks are a result of inferior quality headers. You pay $130 for headers, you get $130 headers. You pay $600 for headers, you get $600 headers. Some brands fit better, some brands are better quality, some are stupid expensive and not even that great, but for the most part, you get what you pay for. The Doug's I have in mine went in once, got tightened once at installation, and that was it....no leaks, no warpage(their flanges are huge), no problems.
And as for traction control, it's called keep your foot off the throttle. You are not going to build an engine that controls tire spin at lower rpm without building an engine that's really inefficient at low rpm....which means poor performance and poor mileage. It will drive like crap and suck tons of fuel. My 302 has a custom cam ground for 3,000-6,500rpm best torque, with good response and power in the 2k rpm range.....even not being tuned right yet, it still rapes tires under 3k rpm. And it's a 302, not a 347.
As far as the Pro Comp heads, when they came out there were tons of threads all over this forum, mainly in the 5.0 section(and other forums) about complete horror stories. People with first hand experience and photos of intake port walls so thin they broke through into pushrod holes, guide failures etc. Think about it, how do you think Pro Comp can sell a head for half the price of their competitor without using low quality materials etc? The newer ones may be better, but the general consensus is spend the money to get a better head. If you want to run one that's up to you, but it is a bit of a gamble. That and the Pro Comp heads aren't as well developed, and virtually every other "smaller" head like the smaller port AFR, Edelbrock, TFS etc heads always outperform them.
Just be aware, if you build the 347 you're talking about the way you stated, it's going to perform like crap, get bad mileage, and you'll be getting raped by 302's all the time. You'll end up wasting a ton of money.
If you stick those heads on a 302(make sure their thoroughly inspected before being assembled with good parts, don't use any of their valves, guides etc) with a good custom hyd roller cam, and a decent exhaust(basic quality headers, x pipe etc), you'll spend the same amount of money(maybe even less) and have an engine that performs WAY better than a 347 with the same heads, hipo manifolds and a small cam.
traction is ALWAYS going to be a problem on well built engines. Modern engine technology can make tons of power from off idle to over 6k rpm quite easily. Run huge tires and/or learn to control your right foot.
03-24-2011, 11:40 AM
#23
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 493
Unless you are getting a killer deal on the shorties I think the JBA stuff is pretty expensive..For the same amount of money I think you could get a quality set of long tubes..The shorties also may not work with the stock clutch linkage?..
Getting back to the pro comp heads...If you install "quality" parts(valves,keepers,springs,retainers,studs,guide plates) you will have close to the same price as a name brand head that will outperform it...I have a buddy on another forum that picked up about 50hp IIRC by swapping from pro comps to AFR heads...These were not just bolt on pro comps either..He had went through them and cleaned up the castings and had quality parts in them..If the budget is really tight I would buy something like a used edelbrock performer/vic jr before going with a pro comp..
Getting back to the pro comp heads...If you install "quality" parts(valves,keepers,springs,retainers,studs,guide plates) you will have close to the same price as a name brand head that will outperform it...I have a buddy on another forum that picked up about 50hp IIRC by swapping from pro comps to AFR heads...These were not just bolt on pro comps either..He had went through them and cleaned up the castings and had quality parts in them..If the budget is really tight I would buy something like a used edelbrock performer/vic jr before going with a pro comp..
03-24-2011, 12:52 PM
#24
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
You can get used heads in the classified section on this forum, and also on corral.net classified section.
And JBA are decent headers. Their LT's can be pricey, but they work well and fit well. And they make a p head header for classics for people who go that route.
But yeah, if you're running stock mechanical linkage, you need headers that will clear it. Companies like JBA, Dougs, FPA etc make headers that actually fit. I had Hookers on mine with mechanical linkage long ago.....no ground clearance, fit like crap, could barely get 2 of the spark plugs out, leaked, and couldn't adjust my clutch.
And JBA are decent headers. Their LT's can be pricey, but they work well and fit well. And they make a p head header for classics for people who go that route.
But yeah, if you're running stock mechanical linkage, you need headers that will clear it. Companies like JBA, Dougs, FPA etc make headers that actually fit. I had Hookers on mine with mechanical linkage long ago.....no ground clearance, fit like crap, could barely get 2 of the spark plugs out, leaked, and couldn't adjust my clutch.
03-24-2011, 01:47 PM
#25
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: U.S.
Posts: 216
You can get used heads in the classified section on this forum, and also on corral.net classified section.
And JBA are decent headers. Their LT's can be pricey, but they work well and fit well. And they make a p head header for classics for people who go that route.
But yeah, if you're running stock mechanical linkage, you need headers that will clear it. Companies like JBA, Dougs, FPA etc make headers that actually fit. I had Hookers on mine with mechanical linkage long ago.....no ground clearance, fit like crap, could barely get 2 of the spark plugs out, leaked, and couldn't adjust my clutch.
And JBA are decent headers. Their LT's can be pricey, but they work well and fit well. And they make a p head header for classics for people who go that route.
But yeah, if you're running stock mechanical linkage, you need headers that will clear it. Companies like JBA, Dougs, FPA etc make headers that actually fit. I had Hookers on mine with mechanical linkage long ago.....no ground clearance, fit like crap, could barely get 2 of the spark plugs out, leaked, and couldn't adjust my clutch.
03-29-2011, 02:36 PM
#27
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: U.S.
Posts: 216
347 update...
After more consideration I have chosen to go with the following on my 65...
347 short block
Pro Comp head castings, local builder to assemble
Roller rockers
ford racing f303 roller cam
edelbrock performer rpm intake
holley 750cfm 4160 vac sec
HIPO K code manifolds for now, possibly changing to JBA medium length headers in the future.
I am also doing a ford racing T5z swap for the top loader 4 speed.
3.00 gears...for now.
Ok...let the bashing begin! lol
347 short block
Pro Comp head castings, local builder to assemble
Roller rockers
ford racing f303 roller cam
edelbrock performer rpm intake
holley 750cfm 4160 vac sec
HIPO K code manifolds for now, possibly changing to JBA medium length headers in the future.
I am also doing a ford racing T5z swap for the top loader 4 speed.
3.00 gears...for now.
Ok...let the bashing begin! lol
03-29-2011, 03:12 PM
#28
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
While the manifolds can be changed later on, changing a cam is much more difficult. You really want a cam that's for a 347. The F cam in a 347 will give you a 347 that makes as much power as a 302, in which case save yourself the money on a stroker kit and build a 302 instead.
Comp has ots grinds for 347 stroker setups.
Comp has ots grinds for 347 stroker setups.
03-29-2011, 04:40 PM
#29
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 493
After more consideration I have chosen to go with the following on my 65...
347 short block
Pro Comp head castings, local builder to assemble
Roller rockers
ford racing f303 roller cam
edelbrock performer rpm intake
holley 750cfm 4160 vac sec
HIPO K code manifolds for now, possibly changing to JBA medium length headers in the future.
I am also doing a ford racing T5z swap for the top loader 4 speed.
3.00 gears...for now.
Ok...let the bashing begin! lol
347 short block
Pro Comp head castings, local builder to assemble
Roller rockers
ford racing f303 roller cam
edelbrock performer rpm intake
holley 750cfm 4160 vac sec
HIPO K code manifolds for now, possibly changing to JBA medium length headers in the future.
I am also doing a ford racing T5z swap for the top loader 4 speed.
3.00 gears...for now.
Ok...let the bashing begin! lol
03-29-2011, 04:45 PM
#30
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: U.S.
Posts: 216