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347 carb question 65 mustang

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Old 03-23-2011, 12:33 AM   #1
synthartist69
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Default 347 carb question 65 mustang

Well I have decided to go with a 347 stroker motor for my 65 fastback. I am wanting to get opinions on which model number and Holley carb I should use on it. I have a 650 but I am being told that it won't be enough. This is a daily driver street racer. Here is my set up....

347 block
Pro Comp Heads
Ford racing E303 cam
Performer RPM intake
Hipo K code exhaust manifolds
Top loader 4 speed
3.00 rear end
Pro Comp electronic distributor
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:46 AM   #2
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You probably want better heads and a cam. Those heads are known to have some major quality/reliability issues, and that cam is outdated for a 302, and downright wheezy on a 347.

As for a carb, 750cfm 4150 style. Annular boosters would be nice. Depending on the cam heads, a 347 could need anything from a 650 to a 950 or 1050.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:45 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by synthartist69 View Post
Well I have decided to go with a 347 stroker motor for my 65 fastback. I am wanting to get opinions on which model number and Holley carb I should use on it. I have a 650 but I am being told that it won't be enough. This is a daily driver street racer. Here is my set up....

347 block
Pro Comp Heads
Ford racing E303 cam
Performer RPM intake
Hipo K code exhaust manifolds
Top loader 4 speed
3.00 rear end
Pro Comp electronic distributor
Have you bought these items yet?
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:57 AM   #4
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I have not bought anything yet.

Let me say first. The builder has had great success with the pro comp heads. He assembles the heads himself. He has sold a lot of 347's and has excellent customer satisfaction. I feel very confident in going with the pro comp heads since he is putting them together with his choice of valves, springs, etc.

I am wanting a cam and carb to maximize this set up for street and highway racing....not going to the drag strip. I want a cam that has a noticable to light medium idle, similar to a comp 268H and NO MORE...What are your suggestions? Thanks!

4 speed with 3.00 rear end
Hipo manifolds....WILL NOT BE USING HEADERS
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:05 AM   #5
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I have not bought anything yet.

Let me say first. The builder has had great success with the pro comp heads. He assembles the heads himself. He has sold a lot of 347's and has excellent customer satisfaction. I feel very confident in going with the pro comp heads since he is putting them together with his choice of valves, springs, etc.

I am wanting a cam and carb to maximize this set up for street and highway racing....not going to the drag strip. I want a cam that has a noticable to light medium idle, similar to a comp 268H and NO MORE...What are your suggestions? Thanks!

4 speed with 3.00 rear end
Hipo manifolds....WILL NOT BE USING HEADERS
Oh and I would rather pull hard from 3000 to 6000 than starting pulling at 1500 just to avoid too much tire spin.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:19 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 67mustang302 View Post
You probably want better heads and a cam. Those heads are known to have some major quality/reliability issues, and that cam is outdated for a 302, and downright wheezy on a 347.

As for a carb, 750cfm 4150 style. Annular boosters would be nice. Depending on the cam heads, a 347 could need anything from a 650 to a 950 or 1050.
+1.....It really won't matter much though if you insist on running HiPo manifolds..They will be a major restriction...
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:36 AM   #7
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+1.....It really won't matter much though if you insist on running HiPo manifolds..They will be a major restriction...
They are a restriction over headers, but I have had some fast cars that didn't have headers.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:52 AM   #8
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Hipo manifolds might as well be a cork on a built up 347. Seriously, those things will probably cost you 40-50hp at least.

For a cam, just get a custom grind. You'll have power where you want it, with drivability, idle etc. Money well spent. Though on a 347 you're going to have wheel spin on street tires, period.

As for the heads, the problem isn't who assembles them. The problem is the Pro Comp heads are low quality control castings from China. It's quite common for them to develop leaks through port walls, cracks etc. Some people are lucky and get a set that are fine, some people get them and end up with a car that won't even run.

And just FYI, if you're going to ignore us and go with the hipo manifolds, then save your money on a 347 kit. A 347 with hipo manifolds, a weak cam and crappy heads won't make any more power than a 302 with the same parts. No sense in getting a stroker kit if you're not going to benefit from it.
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:01 PM   #9
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sounds like your going about your build the wrong way.No headers and you want a powerband from 3000-6000 to avoid tire spin? Do you understnd what kind of intake and cam makes power int that range?

Nothing wrong with Pro Comp heads as long as they are not used out of the box.I have them on mine, but they are totally reworked and CNC'd.
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:01 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by 67mustang302 View Post

As for the heads, the problem isn't who assembles them. The problem is the Pro Comp heads are low quality control castings from China. It's quite common for them to develop leaks through port walls, cracks etc. Some people are lucky and get a set that are fine, some people get them and end up with a car that won't even run.
Where are all these unhappy people (who didn't use the assembled parts)?? In general, I hate Chinese junk more than most, but very few who actually OWN the heads are griping. It's always someone passing on info. The complaints seem to be in cheap assembly parts which don't apply here. Got any firsthand info to share?
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:15 PM   #11
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Where are all these unhappy people (who didn't use the assembled parts)?? In general, I hate Chinese junk more than most, but very few who actually OWN the heads are griping. It's always someone passing on info. The complaints seem to be in cheap assembly parts which don't apply here. Got any firsthand info to share?
It is my understanding that the older PRO COMP heads had problems but that they have improved. I hate chinese junk as well but I can't argue with those who have used these on their 347's and are happy.

As far as exhaust goes, I absolutely hate headers. If the manifolds feel like they are holding me back then I will obviously reconsider, but I had headers on here before and they were a pain.
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:18 PM   #12
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sounds like your going about your build the wrong way.No headers and you want a powerband from 3000-6000 to avoid tire spin? Do you understnd what kind of intake and cam makes power int that range?

Nothing wrong with Pro Comp heads as long as they are not used out of the box.I have them on mine, but they are totally reworked and CNC'd.
Thanks for the input. Maybe I am putting this wrong, I don't know. I know I can't avoid tire spin, I just want to lessen it by moving the torque up higher. what are your suggestions.
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:29 PM   #13
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What was the pain with the headers you had in the past? Ground clearance? Having to retighten them?
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:34 PM   #14
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What was the pain with the headers you had in the past? Ground clearance? Having to retighten them?
Constantly leaking, flanges warping, hard to work around. Tried about every kind of gasket you can think of, etc.
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:47 PM   #15
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Thanks for the input. Maybe I am putting this wrong, I don't know. I know I can't avoid tire spin, I just want to lessen it by moving the torque up higher. what are your suggestions.
Just look at the powerband of the parts.For example a Performer RPM manifold is 1500-6000. A single plane Victor jr is 3500-7000 i think. The cam you mentioned a 268 is a little above stock which has a low end torque powerband.Again a bigger cam would put you in the 3000+ rpm range, but your idle would be more drastic and you would need more compression probably.Then your gears will not work for that cam.So its a domino effect.Your engine builder should be able to suggest what you need based on what he builds.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:27 PM   #16
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Hipo manifolds might as well be a cork on a built up 347. Seriously, those things will probably cost you 40-50hp at least.

For a cam, just get a custom grind. You'll have power where you want it, with drivability, idle etc. Money well spent. Though on a 347 you're going to have wheel spin on street tires, period.

As for the heads, the problem isn't who assembles them. The problem is the Pro Comp heads are low quality control castings from China. It's quite common for them to develop leaks through port walls, cracks etc. Some people are lucky and get a set that are fine, some people get them and end up with a car that won't even run.

And just FYI, if you're going to ignore us and go with the hipo manifolds, then save your money on a 347 kit. A 347 with hipo manifolds, a weak cam and crappy heads won't make any more power than a 302 with the same parts. No sense in getting a stroker kit if you're not going to benefit from it.
I am not ignoring you. I understand that the manifolds are restrictive. Headers can be added later if I feel that they are holding me back too much.

My thinking is that I want to go 347 to compensate for the high gear ratio 3.00. I don't want a lower gear.

Guys, this is not a drag car okay...I am building a street/highway racer that I am hoping will hang with a newer GT.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:37 PM   #17
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Just look at the powerband of the parts.For example a Performer RPM manifold is 1500-6000. A single plane Victor jr is 3500-7000 i think. The cam you mentioned a 268 is a little above stock which has a low end torque powerband.Again a bigger cam would put you in the 3000+ rpm range, but your idle would be more drastic and you would need more compression probably.Then your gears will not work for that cam.So its a domino effect.Your engine builder should be able to suggest what you need based on what he builds.
I want my car to run about like this one, or better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Y6IRyNGuM
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:51 PM   #18
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I want my car to run about like this one, or better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Y6IRyNGuM
Im sorry, i dont see anything in that video that stands out as being "built"

So you want to hang with a new GT? Not gonna happen with your limitations your puttin on it. You want want top end speed, but are you giving any thought to brakes or suspension? A 4 speed will limit you in bottom end because you dont want a deeper gear.

I dont see this as being a serious build, sorry.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:54 PM   #19
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Im sorry, i dont see anything in that video that stands out as being "built"

So you want to hang with a new GT? Not gonna happen with your limitations your puttin on it. You want want top end speed, but are you giving any thought to brakes or suspension? A 4 speed will limit you in bottom end because you dont want a deeper gear.

I dont see this as being a serious build, sorry.
This is a major step up from the 289 that's in it now...
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:50 PM   #20
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This is a major step up from the 289 that's in it now...
Not if it's built wrong.

First, if you get a custom cam it'll be set up for the parts you use, including exhaust. A cam ground for hipo manifolds will have a way different profile than one ground for headers. It's going to have to try an compensate for a ridiculously restrictive exhaust system and prolly end up with tons of exhaust duration. Then if you put headers on later, you're going to have way to much exhaust on your cam.

Second, the hipo manifolds are going to be so restrictive, you're not going to benefit much from the heads, cam etc. If you can't get exhaust out of the cylinder, you can't get fresh air/fuel charge in. Those manifolds are fine on a 289/302 with stock or modified stock heads and a small cam, but will absolutely destroy the power potential on a built 302 and especially a 347. Efficiency will drop like a rock, you'll have exhaust contaminated fuel/air charge in the cylinder, and the power will be crap, it will get bad mileage, and may even run hot or detonate.

As far as headers not fitting right, you can't buy cheap headers and expect quality. Flange warpage and leaks are a result of inferior quality headers. You pay $130 for headers, you get $130 headers. You pay $600 for headers, you get $600 headers. Some brands fit better, some brands are better quality, some are stupid expensive and not even that great, but for the most part, you get what you pay for. The Doug's I have in mine went in once, got tightened once at installation, and that was it....no leaks, no warpage(their flanges are huge), no problems.

And as for traction control, it's called keep your foot off the throttle. You are not going to build an engine that controls tire spin at lower rpm without building an engine that's really inefficient at low rpm....which means poor performance and poor mileage. It will drive like crap and suck tons of fuel. My 302 has a custom cam ground for 3,000-6,500rpm best torque, with good response and power in the 2k rpm range.....even not being tuned right yet, it still rapes tires under 3k rpm. And it's a 302, not a 347.

As far as the Pro Comp heads, when they came out there were tons of threads all over this forum, mainly in the 5.0 section(and other forums) about complete horror stories. People with first hand experience and photos of intake port walls so thin they broke through into pushrod holes, guide failures etc. Think about it, how do you think Pro Comp can sell a head for half the price of their competitor without using low quality materials etc? The newer ones may be better, but the general consensus is spend the money to get a better head. If you want to run one that's up to you, but it is a bit of a gamble. That and the Pro Comp heads aren't as well developed, and virtually every other "smaller" head like the smaller port AFR, Edelbrock, TFS etc heads always outperform them.

Just be aware, if you build the 347 you're talking about the way you stated, it's going to perform like crap, get bad mileage, and you'll be getting raped by 302's all the time. You'll end up wasting a ton of money.

If you stick those heads on a 302(make sure their thoroughly inspected before being assembled with good parts, don't use any of their valves, guides etc) with a good custom hyd roller cam, and a decent exhaust(basic quality headers, x pipe etc), you'll spend the same amount of money(maybe even less) and have an engine that performs WAY better than a 347 with the same heads, hipo manifolds and a small cam.

traction is ALWAYS going to be a problem on well built engines. Modern engine technology can make tons of power from off idle to over 6k rpm quite easily. Run huge tires and/or learn to control your right foot.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:50 PM
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