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Old 10-04-2011, 05:41 PM   #11
dodgestang
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Maybe possible with the cleveland but you would be very hard pressed to get 400hp out of a windsor using the stock heads....It is very doable with a set of aftermarket heads though..No need to stroke it for 400hp..
Yes no need to stroke. Since I own both a 410c and a hopped up 351w....I can say that you can pretty easily get to 400 at the crank with stock heads on either....400 at the back tire is another matter all together thought.

My 351w made 367HP and 447ft according to the engine dyno sheet that came with it when I bought it.....does it sound like it

367hp at the crank with stock headed 351w:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj0DbrCTIBw

400hp at the back tire with a stock headed 410c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBhAExlK-Hc

Both of my cars would make more power if I didn't run small cams to get a less than radical idle out of them I have no doubt with a simply cam change I could pick up to 400 on my 351w but at the same time...it might mean that I have to live a more radical idle and lose my power brakes...not something I would want to do with this particular car. And yes with aftermarket heads 400 is easier to get to and requires less cam IMO.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:20 PM   #12
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Maybe possible with the cleveland but you would be very hard pressed to get 400hp out of a windsor using the stock heads....It is very doable with a set of aftermarket heads though..No need to stroke it for 400hp..
I disagree completely, I have a 396 stroker motor built from a 351w with stock heads and it puts out 400+ hp. I mean a stock 1969 351w had almost 300 hp as advertised from the factory in which we all know that most engines in the 1960's had much more power than advertised. Obviously an engine is going to get much more power with aftermarket heads as opposed to original but go with the stroker for now and you can always put aftermarket heads on later when you get more money
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:17 AM   #13
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I disagree completely, I have a 396 stroker motor built from a 351w with stock heads and it puts out 400+ hp. I mean a stock 1969 351w had almost 300 hp as advertised from the factory in which we all know that most engines in the 1960's had much more power than advertised. Obviously an engine is going to get much more power with aftermarket heads as opposed to original but go with the stroker for now and you can always put aftermarket heads on later when you get more money
I was thinking more about a stock stroke 351W when I made that statement..Sure your 396 stroker "might" make 400hp but I am sure it is in spite of those heads and not because of them..There are also a few different 351 heads out there..The early big valve high compression type heads and the small valve big chambered boat anchors that were on the majority of the 351s built...
So have you ran this motor at the track or on an engine dyno or how do you know it is making 400+hp?
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:40 AM   #14
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I was thinking more about a stock stroke 351W when I made that statement..Sure your 396 stroker "might" make 400hp but I am sure it is in spite of those heads and not because of them..There are also a few different 351 heads out there..The early big valve high compression type heads and the small valve big chambered boat anchors that were on the majority of the 351s built...
So have you ran this motor at the track or on an engine dyno or how do you know it is making 400+hp?
"A stock stroked 351w?" haha that doesn't even make sense, I'm guessing you mean more like a mild built 351w stroker? The bottom line is that when someone wants to stroke a motor they aren't going to build a whimpy 351w but instead are going to put some money into it so that it puts out some good hp and torque because no $hit a 351w with aftermarket heads and a bunch of other goodies is going to put out more horsepower and torque than an extremely mild stroked out 351w, that was never the argument and anyone that strokes out a 351w with the cheapest/smallest kit just to say that it's a stroker should be castrated. And no, I've got relatively stock cast iron heads on my motor although they've been worked over a bit, but yeah the place that I had build my motor dynoed it for me, do you know what your motor is making and do you have a dyne sheet for it? Lol
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:20 AM   #15
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"A stock stroked 351w?" haha that doesn't even make sense, I'm guessing you mean more like a mild built 351w stroker? The bottom line is that when someone wants to stroke a motor they aren't going to build a whimpy 351w but instead are going to put some money into it so that it puts out some good hp and torque because no $hit a 351w with aftermarket heads and a bunch of other goodies is going to put out more horsepower and torque than an extremely mild stroked out 351w, that was never the argument and anyone that strokes out a 351w with the cheapest/smallest kit just to say that it's a stroker should be castrated. And no, I've got relatively stock cast iron heads on my motor although they've been worked over a bit, but yeah the place that I had build my motor dynoed it for me, do you know what your motor is making and do you have a dyne sheet for it? Lol
If you reread my post it says stock STROKE meaning a regular 3.5 inch stroke...Not a stock stroker..lol..My dyno sheet is under my sig in the mph that my car ran at the track..I am much more impressed by track numbers as there is lots of variation in dyno numbers....Dyno operators can make them say whatever they want..
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:42 AM   #16
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There are also a few different 351 heads out there..The early big valve high compression type heads and the small valve big chambered boat anchors that were on the majority of the 351s built...

It is widely reported that the 69-70 351 are the best Windsor castings/heads ever made by Ford.

I could see 400 HP with a big displacement engine with these heads (1970). They look WAY better than 289/302/other 351 Heads. (having once owned a set that I never used, they didn't look all that bad)
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:07 PM   #17
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If you believe that power is related to head flow, check this out;

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Ford
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:10 PM   #18
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If you reread my post it says stock STROKE meaning a regular 3.5 inch stroke...Not a stock stroker..lol..My dyno sheet is under my sig in the mph that my car ran at the track..I am much more impressed by track numbers as there is lots of variation in dyno numbers....Dyno operators can make them say whatever they want..
So you're saying that I for some reason don't have the numbers that I claim to have because "dyno operators can make them say whatever they want"? Haha so obviously I must have paid the guy to put down that I had over 400 hp? Dude get a grip. And the only real argument that I have with you is that you are completely wrong about, "Maybe possible with the cleveland but you would be very hard pressed to get 400hp out of a windsor using the stock heads" clearly my motor has over 400 hp with stock heads and it's not very difficult to get that much power with stock heads that have been s little re-worked. So I guess that means a 289/302 can't get 400+ hp on stock heads either? Lol yeah right dude, first off anything is possible, and second I know a guy that has a 67 fastback gta with a hipo 289 and stock heads that puts out over 400 hp
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:20 PM   #19
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So you're saying that I for some reason don't have the numbers that I claim to have because "dyno operators can make them say whatever they want"? Haha so obviously I must have paid the guy to put down that I had over 400 hp? Dude get a grip. And the only real argument that I have with you is that you are completely wrong about, "Maybe possible with the cleveland but you would be very hard pressed to get 400hp out of a windsor using the stock heads" clearly my motor has over 400 hp with stock heads and it's not very difficult to get that much power with stock heads that have been s little re-worked. So I guess that means a 289/302 can't get 400+ hp on stock heads either? Lol yeah right dude, first off anything is possible, and second I know a guy that has a 67 fastback gta with a hipo 289 and stock heads that puts out over 400 hp
I think you are reading way too much hostility into my posts...I never said it was impossible to get 400hp with stock type heads..I said you would be "hard pressed" using most 351 heads which suck..You won't just bolt them on and make that kind of power...Even the "good" 69-70 heads are not very good..They can be worked on and made to be decent on a 289-351 but they will be a major cork on a stroker motor.They also have to be on a very well built and thought out package to make that much power..Not your average back yard hot rodder throwing something together...If the engine is good enough to make 400hp with the stroker it would make substantially more with a good aftermarket head..Why bother to go to the expense to build the stroker motor which now has big block cubic inches and smother it with a poor flowing small block head...If your only going to make 400hp why bother with a stroker at all?
As for your motor and anyone else who is trying to make a point and says "yeah my motor makes X amount of hp" I want to see some sort of proof...Engine dyno numbers or track mph are the best ones in my opinion..Chassis dyno numbers can vary wildly and are best for making back to back comparisons on your tune up but not as absolute numbers..
Having read your other post about your motor I find the specs very vague and the specs I do see aren't super high performance stuff...You don't even list what heads you are running?..Camshaft specs?...Compression ratio?
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:41 PM   #20
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Good gawd is this post really gonna turn into an argument?

Don't make me start posting burn out videos :P
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:41 PM
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