Tilley

It's been a month now and the car drives like new. My gas mileage has gone up from 20 mpg to 22 mpg. Highest temp to date is 85 degree weather was 175 degrees. Average temp around town is about 165 degrees.

Nice.

Tilley

UPDATE:

It seems as if it is very bad luck to say "oh my car runs like brand new..." and not think that fate or the car gods won't put you in your place. Three days ago my FOURTH O'Reilly's 3-row copper and brass radiator blew another leak from the seal around the top tank.

I had enough with O'Reilly's cheesy radiators. I got my money back and bought a "Champion" 3 row radiator. Because on certain days of the week I can be an idiot, I thought the O'Reilly 3 row would be the same width as the Champion...it wasn't. The space between the frame and the fan was exactly 2.5 inches, and the width of the Champion was 2.5 inches. Because they did not have a 2-row in stock at the Orange location, I drove to Lake Elsinore (Champion warehouse), swapped out with a 2-row.

I knew I could have tried to get a 1/2 inch spacer instead of the 1" spacer behind the fan, but I think the 2-row should be way more than enough to keep the temps at around 170*, whereas the 3-row would still keep it at 170* but with modifications needed.

The last O'Reilly radiator did a great job for the 4 weeks it lived. It was a 3-row with each tube being 1/2" for a total of 1.5". Champion 2-row has tubes coming in at 3/4" for a total of 1.5" as well.

The outlet opening is larger at 1.75" whereas O'Reilly's was 1.5". I'm not sure if that will make a difference in cooling.

The looks and welds look top-notch, much lighter than the copper/brass.

The shroud now has a gap of about 1/2" from the core where it was almost on top of the fins on the O'Reilly's. I hope that won't be a difference in cooling.

I filled it again with 100% distilled water and a bottle of Water Wetter.

The weather today and tomorrow will be in the 90's, so my radiator will have a trial by fire initiation.

I will keep you posted.

Please give me your feedback or comments.

Also, the people at Champion (Jeff, JB and Tyler) knew their product like true experts and went out of their way to help me.

Now to test the goods!

mushaus

Tilley,
Did you ever get the answer to your original questin: I have read in numerous places that the fan should be half in/half out of the shroud for optimum cooling...why?

I'm curios too because my fan is inside my shroud.

Tilley

I think the best answer I saw was because at half in/out it causes less turbulance. The answer made sense to me. In practice, having the fan inside has not caused any problems at all. I had a 1969 Camaro SS that had the fan inside as well, and that was factory installed. Had the fan been ineffective due to its position, I would have trimmed back the shroud, but its fine the way it is.

UPDATE:

The Champion radiator has lasted almost five weeks and has done an excellent job. The hottest it has gotten after 40 miles in about 90* weather is between 188*-190*.

Of course I wonder sometimes had I removed the 1 inch fan spacer, if the Champion 3-row would keep the motor even cooler, but I am not sure. The 3-row would give another 1/2" tube advantage, but it would also be thicker, and perhaps the third row would not have been a significant advantage.

I also removed the 16 pound cap that came with the radiator, and replaced it with a Murray 13 pound radiator cap. I think that help kept the temps down by not allowing the pressure to go over 13 pounds. More pressure is higher temperatures.

All in all, I am impressed with my Champion 2-row aluminum radiator.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY THOUGHTS ON WHICH COOLS A 165 HORSE POWER I6 MOTOR BETTER BETWEEN A CHAMPION 3-ROW OR A 2-ROW...please share your ideas with me here.

Thanks.

Tilley

Update:

Temps here have remained consistent from mid 80's to 100 degrees. In 100 degree weather the temp after 40 miles with hills was 185. A few minutes later idling it crept to 191, then went back down to 186. Even in the heat, the average temp while driving is about 180-185. At night the temps drop to 170.

The car runs great. The Champion radiator has been flawless. Again, I think the key to keeping MY 65 pony cool, in order of importance is as follows:


1. Champion radiator

2. 3.5 inch shroud

3. 6-blade steel race fan

4. 160 degree Hi-flow thermostat

5. Removed all traces of anti-freeze, replacing it with 100% distilled water with a bottle of water wetter.

6. 13 pound radiator cap


Using a thermal infra-red temp gun was a fantastic investment. You can take temps from different parts of the motor. I paid about $65 at Lowes for mine. There are cheaper priced ones out there, but I also believe that you usually get what pay for.

Flade99

Glad to hear you have it working, but I have to make a few comments:
1. Running pure water is asking for trouble. It will not cool significantly better than a 50/50 mix of good antifreeze. More importantly the antifreeze contains corrosion inhibitors and essential lubricants needed to keep you water pump and other parts running smoothly.
2. The should is likely too deep for the 6 cyl engine. The ideal depth should place you fall as close as possible to 1/2 in and 1/2 out of the should. Any other position reduces efficiency.
3. If you really need some improvement look at an electric fan. A mechanical fan is running the slowest at idle where you need it the most. An electric can run at full speed maximizing performance at idle.
4. Make sure the shroud opening is no more than 1/2 inch larger than the fan diameter. Otherwise you'll bleed air around the fan and not gain the full advantage of the shroud.
5. Consider moving back to a 180 degree thermostat. Proper warmup is critical to engine life. The high flow thermostat was a good idea, but 160 degrees opening will not let the car warm up quickly burning moisture out of the crankcase. This will over time contaminate your oil.

Tilley

Howdy Flade99!

I went through almost 5 months of having a massive overheat problem. I read everything I could get my hands on, including every forum on the internet. Beating the overheat issues was a lot of trial and error.

I would love to discuss the shroud depth in detail, but it's late so I will in a few days. Needless to say, I got the shroud early on is the process, and it actually made the car run much hotter. When the car hit 240 degrees, that was WITH the shroud on. I think I know now why it is okay.

For now, please read this article, as it was one on the main reasons why I flushed out all the antifreeze to use only distilled water and Water Wetter. The other reason was because racers use this mixture as well.

http://www.rvtransmissions.com/water_wetter.htm

Please read this and let me know what you think. I appreciate your feedback.

Al Newman

For What it's Worth,
I have no issue with running pure water wetter, even though I don't think it does any better than 50/50 antifreeze. It will provide pump lubrication. Road racers use it because it is not greasy and will not "slick" up the track if the radiator blows. Can't say what the long term effects would be to run only water wetter, though.
Changing thermostat opening points would be a waste of time, as the operating temp of the motor will always exceed the opening point of the thermostat in warm weather.
Electric fans have not found a place in my heart on these old Mustangs. They shift the load from the engine directly to the electrical system, which is marginal at best. Opens up a whole new set of problems to overcome. Mechanical fans are still more effecient and more economical, IMHO.
The radiator size on six cylinder Mustangs has been debated for years. I installed a 3 row radiator in one and ran it for about three months without issue. It did the job very well until it sprang a leak. I replaced it with a new two row radiator and found that the operating temps were identical, except the two row allowed the temps to elevate in stop-and-go traffic faster. I am still of the opinion that the water pump is simply too small for the motor, and so far as I know, there is not a fix for that. Enough said on this subject. I'm out of here.
Best,
Al

Tilley

I have read that about the oil, but my Mustang is an everyday driver and I put on 80 miles per day, so I change oil at least once a month. The oil is never in there long enough. I also used Shell's 15-40 Rotella T heavy duty deisel motor oil. The race shop that built my motor said there was a component in there that was necessary for my motor (forgot what that was).

The reason I chose a 160 degree tstat was because this car was running hot from the day I bought it. Average temp was between 200-240, and that was with a 180 deg tstat. I wanted the car to run on short trips no hotter than 170, and on my daily driving 80 miles, no more than 185 when I get off the freeway. There was no way I could do that with a 180 tstat.

When the weather is hot, the tstat does not control how hot the car gets, only when the water can flow through the radiator. When I had the cheap O'Reilly's 3-row radiator using 50/50 antifreeze with 180 deg tstat and NO shroud, my temps were 200-240. Running it now with 100% distilled/Water Wetter, shroud, 160 degree hi flow tstat and Champion 2-row radiator, my temps on really hot days range from 181 degrees to 195 degrees (103 weather after idling for 5 minutes after a 40 mile drive).

Average temps on that 40 mile drive in average temperatures range from 181-185 degrees. I have taken my temps on a daily basis on a notebook for the last 2 months.

Also, when I bought the Champion radiator, it came with a 16 pound cap. The temps were significantly higher (about 10 degrees). I replaced it with a Murray 13 pound cap and its better...not sure why.

120mm

Zinc. Either zinc dialkyldithiophosphate or zinc di-thiophosphate. It's good for flat tappet engines.