rod bearing gone?
10-05-2005, 05:50 PM
#11
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: belgium
Posts: 103
RE: rod bearing gone?
dark clouds are gathering above the otherwise so calm city of antwerp...
pulled the pan, as the sound was definetely coming from below... rod bearings on cyl 1 and 5 gone, crank has a serious scar on the journal. number two is fine, stopped after that one (had enough for one day again). haven't had the courage to take the main bearing caps off yet.
so as far as the engine, i had done the first rebuild (or what should be that). everything was done EXCEPT for a electrostatical bath for the block itsself. guess that's catching up with me now, since this has happened to me before. so the first time the bearings ( on my "rebuilt" engine) went i got new a new crank and bearings and put them in together with a mechanic from a company that rebuilds engines (in their workshop but after hours). that is, by estimate, 5 running hours ago. it lasted longer after my own rebuild. problem is, after hours, so no warranty as it was a friends favor.... probably indeed some serious rubble in there somewhere, dunno what else could have caused this.
on another note, as i was below my car in my tar pit, you see things in a different perspective. literally. i noticed when i was removing the grating that covers the pit that there was a patch blackened by carbon deposits, just under where the left header meets the pipe that goes towards the muffler. so had a closer look and indeed the seal there was blown out a bit. now i wonder, on a 2 1/2" pipe, what pressure build up should you have? i'm getting a feeling that the left muffler is blocked by carbon deposits (is not a new one, was with the car when i got it), building up pressure on highway and long stretches causing seals to blow out a bit and maybe, just maybe.... overheating?
would appreciate your ideas on that guys, the chances of eventually solving this problem will greatly affect the choices i will make in regards to fixing the car/ which parts will be used/ and/or eventually selling or keeping it. if only this was the usa, i would have gone for a new 429 loooong ago.... it's just a PITA trying to get all those parts across the ocean every time; as you can imagine...
pulled the pan, as the sound was definetely coming from below... rod bearings on cyl 1 and 5 gone, crank has a serious scar on the journal. number two is fine, stopped after that one (had enough for one day again). haven't had the courage to take the main bearing caps off yet.
so as far as the engine, i had done the first rebuild (or what should be that). everything was done EXCEPT for a electrostatical bath for the block itsself. guess that's catching up with me now, since this has happened to me before. so the first time the bearings ( on my "rebuilt" engine) went i got new a new crank and bearings and put them in together with a mechanic from a company that rebuilds engines (in their workshop but after hours). that is, by estimate, 5 running hours ago. it lasted longer after my own rebuild. problem is, after hours, so no warranty as it was a friends favor.... probably indeed some serious rubble in there somewhere, dunno what else could have caused this.
on another note, as i was below my car in my tar pit, you see things in a different perspective. literally. i noticed when i was removing the grating that covers the pit that there was a patch blackened by carbon deposits, just under where the left header meets the pipe that goes towards the muffler. so had a closer look and indeed the seal there was blown out a bit. now i wonder, on a 2 1/2" pipe, what pressure build up should you have? i'm getting a feeling that the left muffler is blocked by carbon deposits (is not a new one, was with the car when i got it), building up pressure on highway and long stretches causing seals to blow out a bit and maybe, just maybe.... overheating?
would appreciate your ideas on that guys, the chances of eventually solving this problem will greatly affect the choices i will make in regards to fixing the car/ which parts will be used/ and/or eventually selling or keeping it. if only this was the usa, i would have gone for a new 429 loooong ago.... it's just a PITA trying to get all those parts across the ocean every time; as you can imagine...
10-05-2005, 07:31 PM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 375
RE: rod bearing gone?
ORIGINAL: harald
dark clouds are gathering above the otherwise so calm city of antwerp...
pulled the pan, as the sound was definetely coming from below... rod bearings on cyl 1 and 5 gone, crank has a serious scar on the journal. number two is fine, stopped after that one (had enough for one day again). haven't had the courage to take the main bearing caps off yet.
so as far as the engine, i had done the first rebuild (or what should be that). everything was done EXCEPT for a electrostatical bath for the block itsself. guess that's catching up with me now, since this has happened to me before. so the first time the bearings ( on my "rebuilt" engine) went i got new a new crank and bearings and put them in together with a mechanic from a company that rebuilds engines (in their workshop but after hours). that is, by estimate, 5 running hours ago. it lasted longer after my own rebuild. problem is, after hours, so no warranty as it was a friends favor.... probably indeed some serious rubble in there somewhere, dunno what else could have caused this.
on another note, as i was below my car in my tar pit, you see things in a different perspective. literally. i noticed when i was removing the grating that covers the pit that there was a patch blackened by carbon deposits, just under where the left header meets the pipe that goes towards the muffler. so had a closer look and indeed the seal there was blown out a bit. now i wonder, on a 2 1/2" pipe, what pressure build up should you have? i'm getting a feeling that the left muffler is blocked by carbon deposits (is not a new one, was with the car when i got it), building up pressure on highway and long stretches causing seals to blow out a bit and maybe, just maybe.... overheating?
would appreciate your ideas on that guys, the chances of eventually solving this problem will greatly affect the choices i will make in regards to fixing the car/ which parts will be used/ and/or eventually selling or keeping it. if only this was the usa, i would have gone for a new 429 loooong ago.... it's just a PITA trying to get all those parts across the ocean every time; as you can imagine...
dark clouds are gathering above the otherwise so calm city of antwerp...
pulled the pan, as the sound was definetely coming from below... rod bearings on cyl 1 and 5 gone, crank has a serious scar on the journal. number two is fine, stopped after that one (had enough for one day again). haven't had the courage to take the main bearing caps off yet.
so as far as the engine, i had done the first rebuild (or what should be that). everything was done EXCEPT for a electrostatical bath for the block itsself. guess that's catching up with me now, since this has happened to me before. so the first time the bearings ( on my "rebuilt" engine) went i got new a new crank and bearings and put them in together with a mechanic from a company that rebuilds engines (in their workshop but after hours). that is, by estimate, 5 running hours ago. it lasted longer after my own rebuild. problem is, after hours, so no warranty as it was a friends favor.... probably indeed some serious rubble in there somewhere, dunno what else could have caused this.
on another note, as i was below my car in my tar pit, you see things in a different perspective. literally. i noticed when i was removing the grating that covers the pit that there was a patch blackened by carbon deposits, just under where the left header meets the pipe that goes towards the muffler. so had a closer look and indeed the seal there was blown out a bit. now i wonder, on a 2 1/2" pipe, what pressure build up should you have? i'm getting a feeling that the left muffler is blocked by carbon deposits (is not a new one, was with the car when i got it), building up pressure on highway and long stretches causing seals to blow out a bit and maybe, just maybe.... overheating?
would appreciate your ideas on that guys, the chances of eventually solving this problem will greatly affect the choices i will make in regards to fixing the car/ which parts will be used/ and/or eventually selling or keeping it. if only this was the usa, i would have gone for a new 429 loooong ago.... it's just a PITA trying to get all those parts across the ocean every time; as you can imagine...
I dont think the header gasket caused the heating problem. Most likely it just burned out because of the heat. That happens pretty quick if the header & pipes are not lined up really well and seal around the entire flange.
I'm still thinking the heating problem was from a head gasket was not installed correctly. It's really easy to over look when you're excited about getting your ride up & running!
10-05-2005, 11:44 PM
#13
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 686
RE: rod bearing gone?
I second the backwards head gaskets. It sound's like you have an oil delivery problem also. When you replaced the crank and bearings, did you check the clearances with Plastigage? Did you replace the oil pump?
10-06-2005, 01:36 PM
#14
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: belgium
Posts: 103
RE: rod bearing gone?
hi guys,
well let's see about your questions first:
the head gaskets are on correctly, i know this because i checked that a while ago, and yes that means pulling the heads and puttin new gaskets in. sorry enough they were in correctly from the git go, so that was some work for nothing. the oil pump was changed with the last new crank, a high volume oil pump i might add, and well, as far as the main bearings are concerned, that i can't swear on because that was the other guy's (the mechanic) job. still, took the bearings to him today and he is surprised to see such damage after 5 hours of runtime. he reckons the crank was okay, and the bearings came with it so they should be good too...
i don't think the header gasket caused the problem, i think one or two clogged mufflers did. i think the gasket was, like you said, already a bit misaligned maybe, but the fact that there is so much black smoke coming out there, to me, that indicates a lot of backpressure from the muffler. and if that backpressure is that high because of a clogged up muffler then that might be a problem. i'm not saying it is, i'm just hoping.
so how about the possibility that somewhere in the oiling circuit there is a lot of dirt that comes loose at high heat and thus gets between the bearings with the known consequences?
anyway, found a company that has 302's in stock, rebuilt, bare blocks and complete longblocks. the guy is gonna call me later. we'll see what price tag he reckons to swap all my performance stuff into one of their rebuilt blocks, and then i really have to decide what to do. i guess the decision is already made, unless if the price is really outrageous, of course...
well let's see about your questions first:
the head gaskets are on correctly, i know this because i checked that a while ago, and yes that means pulling the heads and puttin new gaskets in. sorry enough they were in correctly from the git go, so that was some work for nothing. the oil pump was changed with the last new crank, a high volume oil pump i might add, and well, as far as the main bearings are concerned, that i can't swear on because that was the other guy's (the mechanic) job. still, took the bearings to him today and he is surprised to see such damage after 5 hours of runtime. he reckons the crank was okay, and the bearings came with it so they should be good too...
i don't think the header gasket caused the problem, i think one or two clogged mufflers did. i think the gasket was, like you said, already a bit misaligned maybe, but the fact that there is so much black smoke coming out there, to me, that indicates a lot of backpressure from the muffler. and if that backpressure is that high because of a clogged up muffler then that might be a problem. i'm not saying it is, i'm just hoping.
so how about the possibility that somewhere in the oiling circuit there is a lot of dirt that comes loose at high heat and thus gets between the bearings with the known consequences?
anyway, found a company that has 302's in stock, rebuilt, bare blocks and complete longblocks. the guy is gonna call me later. we'll see what price tag he reckons to swap all my performance stuff into one of their rebuilt blocks, and then i really have to decide what to do. i guess the decision is already made, unless if the price is really outrageous, of course...
10-06-2005, 02:42 PM
#15
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 17,565
RE: rod bearing gone?
Yeah, it sounds like your engine is one of those lemons that has to be replaced. It's too bad you are not in the states where there are genuine Ford mechanics and already rebuilt and crate engines you can get without having to ship them to Belgium. I feel for ya bruva, but can't help ya.
10-07-2005, 12:56 AM
#18
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 375
RE: rod bearing gone?
I hate to say it but I think you may be better off getting a new engine. You seem to have two seperate probems we cant find the source of. Over heating & low/no pressure to one or more main bearings.
I could be wrong her but I haven't ever personally seen a muffler plugged to the point of causing enough back pressure to caue an engine to heat that fast. I have sen cat's get clogged and cause an engine to runhot but not mufflers. They tend to burn out thus causing less back ressure, not more. I think the carbon around the bad headet gasket is just what was leaking because there is less resistance for it to go out the leak than to travel thru the muffler & the rest of the tail pipe.
I would think only 3 things left that could cause your car to heat that fast. The head gasets on wrong, cracked block and/or heads, or your timing advanced really too far. I think you said earlier your radiator had been replaced & you had removed the thermostat. The openings in the head gasket should have been to the rear of the block while the water passage in the front of the block are closed.
For the oil pressure, maybe there is a plug in the oil gally missing. If all the other bearings are ok, I would think it was something in that part of the block causing the problem. If others are also bad, maybe it was a bad oil pump or filter. From what you said tho, the pressure looked ok on the guage.
As 69FECoupe mentioned, plastiguage is a must to verify everything has the proper oil clearance. This will verify that everything is ok, especially on a new install. I think you mentioned the first time you were working on getting things running that a couple of the rockers had noticebly less oil than the others. Do you by chance remember which cylinders those were?
While it would be good to at least know what happened to your engine, Soaring is right in saying it's time to look for a new one. With the crank gone & still not knowing what caused this in the firstplace, a new unit would be the best way to go.
I could be wrong her but I haven't ever personally seen a muffler plugged to the point of causing enough back pressure to caue an engine to heat that fast. I have sen cat's get clogged and cause an engine to runhot but not mufflers. They tend to burn out thus causing less back ressure, not more. I think the carbon around the bad headet gasket is just what was leaking because there is less resistance for it to go out the leak than to travel thru the muffler & the rest of the tail pipe.
I would think only 3 things left that could cause your car to heat that fast. The head gasets on wrong, cracked block and/or heads, or your timing advanced really too far. I think you said earlier your radiator had been replaced & you had removed the thermostat. The openings in the head gasket should have been to the rear of the block while the water passage in the front of the block are closed.
For the oil pressure, maybe there is a plug in the oil gally missing. If all the other bearings are ok, I would think it was something in that part of the block causing the problem. If others are also bad, maybe it was a bad oil pump or filter. From what you said tho, the pressure looked ok on the guage.
As 69FECoupe mentioned, plastiguage is a must to verify everything has the proper oil clearance. This will verify that everything is ok, especially on a new install. I think you mentioned the first time you were working on getting things running that a couple of the rockers had noticebly less oil than the others. Do you by chance remember which cylinders those were?
While it would be good to at least know what happened to your engine, Soaring is right in saying it's time to look for a new one. With the crank gone & still not knowing what caused this in the firstplace, a new unit would be the best way to go.
10-07-2005, 01:20 AM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 375
RE: rod bearing gone?
I always like to repair than replace but Harald is in a unique situation. He has a very limited supply of part to work with. When he can get them, I'm guessing he pays some serious $$$ to get them shipped. Also he now has a bad cank that may or may not be able to be re-ground. He has a block that has overheated and still doesn't know the cause. He may have ruined the rings dependng on how hot it actually got. We don't know if there is any cylinder damage because of the lack of oil pressure on #1 and #5 cylinders. The cam bearings in the front of the engine could also be bad or at least worn badly.
I just don't think that Harald would have the patience or resources to keep chasing after the problems here. I sure don't think I would in his place given what has already been done.
I just hope he can get it resolved and actually enjoy his car.
I just don't think that Harald would have the patience or resources to keep chasing after the problems here. I sure don't think I would in his place given what has already been done.
I just hope he can get it resolved and actually enjoy his car.