EFI with stock FUEL sending unit..
10-12-2013, 09:54 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 26
EFI with stock FUEL sending unit..
Okay. I have a 1966 mustang coupe. Right now I'm in the process of building up an engine for the beast. I have a 1991 Mustang motor with edelbrock RPM performer heads, probe forged pistons STD, x303 cam, Magnum procomp pushrods, 1.6 roller rockers, PC-3247 procomp throttle body and a Procomp Manifold PC24030.. among other little things.. I want to get this thing in the car and running ASAP... but I'm having a problem understanding how to get the fuel to the injectors.. SO, how/what do I need to install to get the fuel there. The little 289 had a manual fuel pump, so this is new territory for me considering I know I will need an electric pump.
I know I will probably need something like this kit, but I'm not sure if it's application will work for fuel injection.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cmb-03-0064/overview/
Keep in mind I have a stock sending unit (new) for the original 66 set up. Any help regarding this topic would greatly be appreciated. If you have done something like this please tell me what/how you did it.
I know I will probably need something like this kit, but I'm not sure if it's application will work for fuel injection.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cmb-03-0064/overview/
Keep in mind I have a stock sending unit (new) for the original 66 set up. Any help regarding this topic would greatly be appreciated. If you have done something like this please tell me what/how you did it.
10-12-2013, 10:42 AM
#2
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
Ditch the stock sending unit, it'll cause problems as a feed for the pump.
Easiest way for install and maintenance is to run an external inline pump like a Walbro 255 (should be more then enough for what you have now). Aeromotive 100 micron pre filter before the pump and 10 micron post filter after the pump (don't skimp on filtration with EFI, saves you a lot of trouble down the road). The pickup in the stock sending unit is too small for the suction side of an EFI pump, it will cause problems for the pump.
There's a company called RobMC that makes a pickup I use in mine, it has the sender with 1/2" feed and return lines that can be flared from them for -8 or -10 AN lines. Run a braided stainless line from that pickup to the pre filter, then you can either run braided stainless line from the pump to the post filter to the engine, or just run it to an adapter fitting on hard line up to the engine, then run a stainless braided line from the end of the hardline to the injector rails. Then from the rails to the regulator, and back to the tank return.
I'm not a fan of the return location on the RobMC unit, so I capped it off and had fittings soldered to the tank so the return goes to pass. side of my tank just below the tank mounting flange. You can also plumb the return to the drain plug location, but ideally you want the return up higher on the tank for air bubble separation.
The cheap-*** way is rubber line from a larger 3/8 factory pickup to a crappy filter, to an inline pump, to another crappy filter, to stock lines, to rubber to the engine. But that will cause you problems in fuel flow (the pumps are pretty sensitive), and there's no reason to use plain rubber line other than being a cheap-*** (especially since the fittings for AN stuff are basically leak proof and very strong).
For stainless braided line, use good name brand stuff like Aeroquip, the hose is really high quality and lasts for a long time, and it's nearly indestructible to any physical stuff that would contact it. It's just safer. Cheap hose is made with cheap rubber that breaks down in shorter order.
For pump, filters, lines etc, plan on spending about $500-1,000 on the entire fuel system to do it right (depending on pump, line and filters you use).
Easiest way for install and maintenance is to run an external inline pump like a Walbro 255 (should be more then enough for what you have now). Aeromotive 100 micron pre filter before the pump and 10 micron post filter after the pump (don't skimp on filtration with EFI, saves you a lot of trouble down the road). The pickup in the stock sending unit is too small for the suction side of an EFI pump, it will cause problems for the pump.
There's a company called RobMC that makes a pickup I use in mine, it has the sender with 1/2" feed and return lines that can be flared from them for -8 or -10 AN lines. Run a braided stainless line from that pickup to the pre filter, then you can either run braided stainless line from the pump to the post filter to the engine, or just run it to an adapter fitting on hard line up to the engine, then run a stainless braided line from the end of the hardline to the injector rails. Then from the rails to the regulator, and back to the tank return.
I'm not a fan of the return location on the RobMC unit, so I capped it off and had fittings soldered to the tank so the return goes to pass. side of my tank just below the tank mounting flange. You can also plumb the return to the drain plug location, but ideally you want the return up higher on the tank for air bubble separation.
The cheap-*** way is rubber line from a larger 3/8 factory pickup to a crappy filter, to an inline pump, to another crappy filter, to stock lines, to rubber to the engine. But that will cause you problems in fuel flow (the pumps are pretty sensitive), and there's no reason to use plain rubber line other than being a cheap-*** (especially since the fittings for AN stuff are basically leak proof and very strong).
For stainless braided line, use good name brand stuff like Aeroquip, the hose is really high quality and lasts for a long time, and it's nearly indestructible to any physical stuff that would contact it. It's just safer. Cheap hose is made with cheap rubber that breaks down in shorter order.
For pump, filters, lines etc, plan on spending about $500-1,000 on the entire fuel system to do it right (depending on pump, line and filters you use).
10-12-2013, 11:34 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 26
What is I went to an inline pump like this one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3138/overview/
and used a couple inline filters..
along with that you think the sending unit would be usable if I welded in a 3/8's inlet instead of the 5/16's pipe inlet that's on there?
and I get it.. go with a badass line..
and for the return line, your saying the best way is to just put in a line that returns toward the top of the tank.... now.. would that line require any kind of mechanisms helping the fuel return, or is it all 'gravity'
(I'm just trying to get an overall grasp)
and used a couple inline filters..
along with that you think the sending unit would be usable if I welded in a 3/8's inlet instead of the 5/16's pipe inlet that's on there?
and I get it.. go with a badass line..
and for the return line, your saying the best way is to just put in a line that returns toward the top of the tank.... now.. would that line require any kind of mechanisms helping the fuel return, or is it all 'gravity'
(I'm just trying to get an overall grasp)
10-12-2013, 12:19 PM
#4
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
I have no idea of the quality of that pump. Personally, I'll only run Walbro or Aeromotive pumps, but that's just me...the Walbro being the "cheaper" of the 2. Same with filters, I run the Aeromotive pre and post filters (both around $115 each, with replaceable elements).
You can buy senders from NAPA etc that have 3/8" feeds on them, trying to solder one in place would be more difficult than you realize....
As for return, a return type system basically runs a regulator AFTER the fuel rails...the pump feeds pressurized fuel up to the rails and the regulator bypasses whatever volume it needs to in order to maintain proper pressure. The bypassed fuel returns to the tank under very slight pressure (basically like free flow but with a few lbs of pressure at most). It's being pushed by the pump.
You can buy senders from NAPA etc that have 3/8" feeds on them, trying to solder one in place would be more difficult than you realize....
As for return, a return type system basically runs a regulator AFTER the fuel rails...the pump feeds pressurized fuel up to the rails and the regulator bypasses whatever volume it needs to in order to maintain proper pressure. The bypassed fuel returns to the tank under very slight pressure (basically like free flow but with a few lbs of pressure at most). It's being pushed by the pump.
10-12-2013, 03:29 PM
#5
Yukon Cornelius
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: deep in the heart of dixie GEORGIA
Posts: 11,808
one of the other mods here JamesW has some info about going with the ford truck style efi setup on his site that is easy to go with
http://www.midnightdsigns.com/james/
http://www.midnightdsigns.com/james/
10-12-2013, 03:52 PM
#6
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
The one thing to keep in mind is that you need to use a pump and line size appropriate for the engine power, plus headroom for safety. And the capability of the pump will determine what line size you can use at a given pressure.
Also, if you plan to upgrade engine power later, you'll need a system that can handle future power, or be easily altered to handle future power.
Also, if you plan to upgrade engine power later, you'll need a system that can handle future power, or be easily altered to handle future power.
10-12-2013, 04:57 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 26
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-8130/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-670470/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpn-gsl392/overview/
So.. using AN hose or something of the sort.. including the above parts I should be good to go, correct? I still need a grasp of how the electronics work. I'm thinking this should help: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-890023/overview/
Any thoughts?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-670470/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpn-gsl392/overview/
So.. using AN hose or something of the sort.. including the above parts I should be good to go, correct? I still need a grasp of how the electronics work. I'm thinking this should help: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-890023/overview/
Any thoughts?
10-12-2013, 04:59 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 26
as for the power I'm not going to go any further than what I have listed in my first post. Probably gonna push about 4-420hp at the wheels. If anything it'll be less.. but with that being said I'm done boosting this ride after this is in. My 69 project will be the crazy one 
10-12-2013, 06:17 PM
#9
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
Learn how EFI is wired before you start hooking stuff up, wiring is critical for EFI, and done wrong will cause all sorts of EMI or damage stuff. Decent harnesses make it mostly fool proof though.
And yeah, fittings like that, but you need to think about how you're laying your system out before you order parts so you get all the right stuff.
Not sure about the Edelbrock filters, ideally you want a 100 micron pre filter and a 10 micron post filter (you need 1 filter before the pump and 1 after).
And yeah, fittings like that, but you need to think about how you're laying your system out before you order parts so you get all the right stuff.
Not sure about the Edelbrock filters, ideally you want a 100 micron pre filter and a 10 micron post filter (you need 1 filter before the pump and 1 after).