barnett468

Also, unless its either a D code or a K code it is not very collectible so that should be reflected in the price.

vernonallen53

Thank you for the advice and the continued "positive" support in the quest for knowledge.

barnett468

No prob, you're very welcome. Here's some more knowledge for ya. The tail lite panel is stamped out in a mold. The mold contains the cut outs for the tail lites. For Ford to have made that panel with 4 tail lites, they would have to either made a new $100,000.00 mold just for that one person that requested dual tail lites in their car or made a separate dye to stamp the additional holes after the panel was made.

The additional holes for the lites in her car were not stamped out by a dye no matter what you think. Ford did not make a very expensive dye to stamp out additional tail lite holes in that panel for one person.

The factory holes also have a very small lip on them from the mold which is visible on the inside of the panel.

If you look CLOSELY you will see that there is NO small lip on the extra holes in the panel.

Putting extra holes in a tail lite panel is completely different than having bolts in a car that are not typical. There is no comparison. For did not have to do extra work or make additional molds or dyes to put in different bolts.

As i said, if there is no proof then it never happened as far as an intelligent buyer is concerned, that's just a simple fact.

If you take your dual quad Challenger to Barrett Jackson and say, "i want to sell this and advertise it as a factory original dual quad car", they will say, "Ok, all we need is legitimate proof.".

This proof does NOT rely upon a letter from the original owner or family members nor does it rely on a written statement from Galen Govier. It must be from the factory.

You can swear up and down that it's original and try to convince them that it is up until the time they simply hang up on you.

This is NOT to say that there are NOT unusual cars out there that the factory did things to, however, they did NOT make special molds for one off parts, put those parts on a car and sell them to the public.

The most common thing is an engine in a car that typically wasn't offered in a particular model or special material on the seats or special color.

I'm guessing the Cobra Jet you mentioned is a 68.5 fastback. If so, that is a PRODUCTION CAR with NO body or engine mods done by the factory. They were white and most were sold to dealers that wanted them.

None of them had fenders that were flared by the factory or extra tail lites in the rear panel from the factory, lol.

The Talledaga's and Thunderbolts were production cars.

You can see several of these "one off" cars at an annual event called the Woodward cruise.

vernonallen53

OK .. Sorry for the delay in post but I am now in possession of the CAR I asked questions about. I was almost discouraged from buying car by the negative posts but kept diligent and guess what? the owner called me and sold her to me. NOW the good and bad. the 4 tail lights had been an add on. She had forgotten ( 86 years old) her son told me they did it in the 80's when they had the car in car shows. SO that solved that .
THE GOOD... The car is a "D" code car. Early may of 1964 build date. It is a factory 4 speed car, 289 "D" code. It has the usual rust in floors . original Burgundy, with white top and white seats with black trim. I pulled the seats out and the home made carpet yesterday, put it on my lift and gave it a real good look over. the hood is correct, the generator replaced by alternator, the engine in fact is a 302, BUT I have found the correct 289 "D" code engine. The 4 speed was replaced with automatic, but also have found 4 speed to replace.
I am working on getting the correct parts. CAR has frame mounted horns, the title is from 1965, the top is power and still works.
It will take a lot of work but that is not a big deal. I am just glad I did not let the negative comments run me away from the opportunity to own this car. Purchase price 850.00. I believe I did OK. NOW to search for other parts to get it started. MY plan is to start next year after gathering all the parts.
BY the way. After making the deal her son pulled out 4 autolight 4 barrel carbs, original intake, extra 8 inch rear with 300. gears, a bunch of 1969 mustang parts, to include perfect head light fender extensions, green dot c-4, and 2 truck loads of mustang parts collected by his father over 40 years. Price? Included in sale of car, stipulations, I allow him to help work on car!
Thanks guys for the good comments and I will make a new post showing just what was found , and the restoration as it progresses!

vernonallen53

YOU are correct barnett468. BUT it is a "d" code 4 speed and I now own it! Thanks for the reply and the explanation.

barnett468

.
the original 4 speed was a side loader . . they almost never work right and are not rebuildable because the parts are not available for them . . unless one works perfectly, they might be worth $20.00 to a tranny guy for parts . . i suggest you buy a wide ratio top loader . . $400.00 would be a decent price for one that needs rebuilding . . $800.00 would be a steal for a properly rebuilt one . . $200.00 for a complete orig shifter is a deal but the shift arm might need replating.

i would use a mcleod 1650 lb pressure plate and basic centerforce or mcleod street disc

there are basically only 2 autolite carbs that have significant value . . they would be 54.5 thru 66 a and k code. . the others that have 1.08 venturis are maybe worth $50.00 . . the bigger 1.23 ones are off of big block cars and are virtually worthless for whatever reason.

things that can not be bought for a 64.5 are the arm rest bases, door sills, and generator sheild.

acc is the only carpet mfg for them and they have the 64.5 style carpet.

the inside rocker panels fets vinyl, not carpet.

for seat foam buy "american cushion industries" . . npd sells it.

if you want correct interior buy the original vinyl from sms or repo vinyl from distinctive upholstery and send it to tmi to sew up and press door panels out of.

if it has the orig arm rests and they are decent, you can get them re-vacuum metalized.

in addition to the hood, the headlite buckets are special on 64.5
.

barnett468

.
i did not see one single negative comment about the car in general . . i must have missed it.

t5mustang

I will continue my quest for knowledge and parts. I plan on starting this one next year (2016) after I complete the ones I am working on now. THIS is my 3rd 64 1/2 Mustang that I own. I am aware of the differences in the 64 1/2 and 65 mustang. Thank you for your input and knowledge. THE input on a positive level is always welcome. I do not plan on a concourse restoration. (Been there done that.) After showing cars and having trailer queens for 30 years I grew tired of filling buildings with cars I am afraid to let out and run. Hope to see some of you all down the road. If your ever in west central Georgia come check out a few of our ponies.

Adrenolin

Great price for the car and congrats. I'll agree putting a top loader in would be the way to go if you are switching back from the auto. If you buy a used one be prepared for a rebuild! Just saying. Its not incredibly difficult however it is not the nicest thing to do and a single mistake can ruin a lot of hard work.

If you buy a used one then I highly suggest ordering a rebuild kit from toploaderheaven.com. You have NO way to tell if there is a hidden issue inside unless you rebuild and replacing the 40 year old worn parts is simply a wise and prudent thing to do. I picked up a used toploader for our car and went this route with the rebuild kit. While cleaning the parts after disassembly I realized over half the teeth on the mainshaft were missing! I'd have never seen this unless I did the rebuild. I was able to order a replacement mainshaft and continue the rebuild.

If you haven't purchased a used toploader yet and don't wish to rebuild one then I'd suggest contacting davidkeetoploaders.com and talking to them about your needs. This is where I purchased the replacement mainshaft from and they were great to talk to. They were even willing to overnight the mainshaft to me up into Canada even though it was later in the day when I ordered via phone. Order, receive, bolt in and no worries.

As barnett touched on.. Wide vs Close ratio versions the choice should be decided by the rear gears you decide to run and what type of driving you will mainly be doing. Street/highway with an occasional fun strip run with tall/high rear gears (2.79, 3.00, 3.25, etc) a Wide ratio will likely be preferred. If strip or track racing with short/lower rear gears (3.55, 3.73, 4.10, etc) then Close ratio would be best.

As a note in 4th it doesn't matter one way or the other however with the Wide you'll be shifting sooner from first to second and not much wait to hit third either.
Wide = 2.78, 1.93, 1.36, 1.00
Close = 2.32, 1.69, 1.29, 1.00

Been there, done that.. so figured I'd toss out some helpful info for you and 2 great providers. Hope it helps.

WestCoastShelby

HAHAHA