Adrenolin

As said above.. The Comp Cams over the Edelbrock everyday of the week. I ordered one of the CC setups for our 351W and did the drill thing to mount the spider rack. NO Issues! Simply mark out where you need to drill (remeasure & confirm 3-4 times) and cover the entire engine with a polyester bed sheet (no fibers), clear painters plastic drop cloth or heavy rolled paper used to tape off body areas when painting. Cut out a small 2" square where you need to drill and either tape it down or have someone else hold it securely for you. Use a depth gauge guide, or blue painters tape, etc, on the drill bit and ensure you use a light punch to indent the drill point before you start to drill. This will help guide bit from the start. Remove the drill and bit and run a tap down to thread the hole. NOTE: this requires a flat bottomed bit as started in the instructions and not a regular one from a typical tap&die set.

Optionally have someone else hold a shop vac hose near the work point to collect shavings as you work. If not simply vacuum them all up when done then remove the covering.

Yeah I had the same apprehension when I did mine, then just did it. It's over before you really think about it once you set your mind to it. Afterwards it's like "well, that was nothing". Truly this is one of those non oh crap / over thinking things and is actually very simple, easy and quick to do. Comp Cams was 100% great every step of the way when I've used them and have no issues recommending their roller cams and setup.

67mustang302

Looks like it includes the link bar style lifters. Lunati is currently having them manufactured by Morel, which is why they're pricey. But they're really good quality lifters.

It might not be too bad off the line with mid 3.00 gearing and a decent 1st gear in the transmission. Hard to say without knowing more about the cam. Mine has even more aggressive looking specs than that, and with a 3.55 and the somewhat taller 1st gear in the TKO 600 I have more bottom end than I know what to do with. It can be a bit pissy in parking lots at low speed though.

Diputado

OK...now I'm really getting confused here. For example, Barnett468, why would this cam be "a pig off the line", as you say? Please explain, as I genuinely want to know. What is the downside to this cam grind? The duration? Lift? And yes..it's indeed pricey, but that's because of the link-bar lifters. Without them, it's around $350 (still not cheap). And no..haven't bought ANYTHING yet...I always research this kind of stuff for weeks and months first. I spent nearly a year researching the heads before settling on the AFRs.

My confusion comes from the fact that some of you are saying this is not the "right" cam for my application, yet all the info from Lunati, both on their website and their tech guy, seems to suggest otherwise. Admittedly, I don't have a lot of experience selecting/buying cams. My only other hotrod was back over 30 years ago, and it had a 289 with a Crane SSH-300NC grind (228/228; .500/.500; advertised duration 300/300). That car ('66 Mustang) had a stock 3.00 gear and a T-10 4-speed, and with THAT cam it would absolutely light up the tires all the way up to 3rd gear. It had tons of torque at virtually all rpms.

groho

That cam was only a comparison of the valve lifts between a flat tappet hyd cam and a hyd roller cam......didn't mean to scare anyone. The cams I've mentioned require a 2400 stall minimum and prob 3:25 gears or better. I believe diputado is looking for something in the range of compcams 262H, runs a 225 dur and a 490 lift, good for 1300-5600RPM, would be excellent with his current heads or those AFR165's. Very good street manners, with a little zip.

barnett468

Ok, it seems odd to me that you had a 300 duration cam that could have a ton of bottom end with 3.00 gears . . This sounds like a matter of how you define lots of bottom end and how I or possibly others define it . . I assure you that the comp XE266HR cam will have more low ewnd that that on . . Maybe you don't want as much low end as I like . . This is where it becomes difficult helping someone select a cam.

This is a good article and shows the difference between different combos. The bigger heads worked better with the bigger cam, however, using the same huge XE282HR cam, the smaller 165 heads with the “smaller” RPM intake, beat the bejesus out of the bigger heads and intake up to around 4400 rpm where the bigger parts started to catch up.

If you want strong bottom end and like power off the line and do not plan to rev it past 4,000 rpm often, you do not want a cam that is much bigger than the XE266HR.

If you want bad bottom end but like to rev to 6,500 rpm, you do not want the XE266HR but you might want the next one up or a similar Lunati.

Yes the Morel lifters are nice but the stock cage type lifters are also fine for your app.

The guy at Lunati is making minimum wage and is probably repeating info from a standard sheet of paper . . If he was an engine builder like I and others are, he would be building engines and not working for minimum wage at a cam mfg so I would take his suggestion with a grain of salt per se.


http://www.airflowresearch.com/artic...025/A25-P1.htm

They are also using the exact same cam I suggested.

Vic Jr, Comp XE282HR

Rpm . . . . .3200 . . 3600 . . 4000 . . .4400 . . .4800
AFR 165 . . .195 . . . 229 . . . 266 . . . 300 . . . 333
AFR 185 . . .199 . . . 237 . . . 276 . . . 314 . . . 347



AFR 165 heads XE282HR

Rpm . . . . .3200 . . 3600 . . 4000 . . .4400 . . 4800
Perf Rpm . . 194 . . . 240 . . . 283 . . . 318 . . . 346
Vic Jr . . . . .195 . . . 229 . . . 266 . . . 300 . . . 333



AFR 165 heads, XE266HR

Rpm . . . . .3200 . . 3600 . . 4000 . . .4400 . . .4800
Perf RPM . . 204 . . . 242 . . . 278 . . . 309 . . . 339
Vic Jr . . . . 199 . . . 234 . . . 267 . . . 297 . . . 336


I think the dyno they used is a little generous meaning it might read a bit higher than some others . . that being said, dynos are mainly good for tuning and direct comparisons.

With around 9.5 compression or more, the XE266HR cam will easily make around 350 hp between 5500 - 5800 rpm at the crank on most dynos with afr 165 heads and eddy rpm intake and 650 carb . . get it ground on a small base circle for a retrofit application.


http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...csid=1056&sb=0


this lunati cam i also suggested is just a tiny hair smaller so it should have a hair more bottom and a hair less top end.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=4735&gid=289
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67mustang302

Yeah, performance can be subjective, especially when talking about bottom end and street manners.

One thing to keep in mind too, is you don't need a big cam to make big power (specs wise), good heads with a modest cam will generally produce much better performance than a big cam with not so good heads.

Also, it's like dominoes....once you start going to bigger cams to make more power, you need better valvetrain, better internal components, better heads, better ignition, better transmission and so on. Price goes up significantly once you start pushing engines past 5,500rpm, or reliability suffers.

Diputado

Well, didn't know I'd start such a lively and productive thread! Hey Barnett468...although I can't say I necessarily agree with all your opinions, you certainly posted a very useful and informative article! Thanks!

OK...here's one for y'all...has anyone ever used the 1.7 ratio rocker arms? For example, that Lunati cam with .500/.510 lift would create .531/.542 lift using 1.7 ratio rockers, while with the same duration and tappet lift. More to the point...other than this type of situation/relationship...is there any other reason you use the 1.7 vs. "normal" 1.6 ratio rockers? Even more to the point...which is "easier" on the valve-train: a lobe-generated lift of .531, or a rocker-ratio generated lift of .531?

barnett468

hello;


ok, you are getting into complicated areas now and i have no idea exactly what part of my comments you are disagreeing with but i'll be happy to try and clarify them if you want.

the simplest answer to your question is, if you need a cam, buy the cam with the lift you want in the first place . . there are easily over 100 different grinds for these engines . . cams are designed to work as delivered . . the cam recommended by the lunati guy is not the best cam to use on high flow heads like the afr's because of its low lift . . that cam is not terrible, it's simply not what i would use.

it takes years of experience to begin to know what works well togetrher, and it would take pages of text to try to explain it all to you.

i have been a comp cam dealer for around 25 years and have been building engines and restioring cars for around 35 so i know for a fact that most of the guys that ansdwer the tech lines at these places have very little knowledged and that many do in fact read info from their tech sheets, and many don't know what it really means, so this is why i caution you about taking their advice.

i know a guy that used comps crummy lifters and they made a ticking noise, so he called comp to ask about it and the tech guy said to put a can of Rislone engine cleaner in his brand new $7,000.00 engine and see if that fixed it, lol.
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67mustang302

On the matter of 1.6 vs 1.7, it's slightly more complicated than just resulting in increased lift. It also increases valve acceleration, because for any given part of the slope that results in certain valve motion with 1.6, 1.7 will cause the valve to move farther in the same amount of time. If you have the clearance and the springs are up to it, most of the time you're fine, and can gain a slight amount of performance.

The advantage to 1.7 really comes when you start to turn more rpm. The most problematic part of the valvetrain in a pushrod engine are the pushrods and lifters. The pushrods can bend and flex, and the lifters are really heavy. A 1.7 cam is designed to give the needed valve motion (which is what really matters), but with slightly less aggression on the cam lobe. The motion/acceleration is removed from the lifter/pushrod and added in at the valve itself. In the end for street purposes, you can still get tons of power and valvetrain stability with 1.6, but 1.7 has an on paper advantage at least in terms of stability with the lifter and pushrod.

Also at the extreme limits, there's a maximum size you can make a lobe on a cam and still have it function. At those limits, higher rocker ratios will give you more valve motion...but at that point you're talking about an engine that's not even rational to drive on the street.

The safest bet is to just go with whatever rocker ratio the cam was designed for. I wouldn't worry about rocker ratio until you're dumping upwards of $7-10K into an engine.

barnett468

yeah, what he said.

you can run 1.6 rockers to 7,000 rpm all day long . . just buy good .080" wall chromolly push rods which you will need anyway, easy deal.

99.999% of the cams made for the older windsor series fords are designed for 1.6 rockers anyway.

also, for every 30 grams [i think it is] that you remove from the valve train with lite weight valves, small diameter springs and titanium retainers etc., your rpm will increase by around 100 using the same cam.

this is one way to maintain the same bottom end but increase top end perf with no penalty whatsoever except for the one your wallet takes when you pay for this fancy stuff, lol.

did the lunati tech not happen to mentione any of this?
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