guitarman376

Hey guys I finally got around to installing the Borgeson power steering setup in my car. FAR from finished but I'll give some details on the process for me so far.

Installing the saginaw pump was pretty easy and straightforward. However the Borgeson mounting kit is not quality apparently because I will have to use washers as shims to get the pump lined up with the crank pulley better. As you can also see in the picture, the mounting sleeve thingies are already rusting, so when I'm done setting up everything else I will paint these.


Removing the factory steering box was very easy. After removal I dropped the Borgeson box in with hoses attached loosely. They say in print the collapsable column would have to be collapsed 1-2 inches, however it was more like 3-5 inches! I mean this thing barely fits. Really wish they would shorten the shaft where the rag joint goes or the rag joint itself because then the column would still have room to collapse and install would be tons easier. Even half an inch would help, as this issues is the primary reason the install was 2 solid days work so far.


One complaint I had right off the bat was that they don't mark either side of the box/shafts for where center is. Not wanting to guess-timate and later find out it's wrong anyway I decided I would install the box and find its real center with the column/rag joint attached (using the steering wheel). This sounds like some easy trial and error fitment, but because my column was fully collapsed getting everything to fit back in the car was very frustrating every time. The rag joint has a lot of splines which means that much more time spent getting it right. Spent a few hours on this step alone, a friend made it much faster.


The hoses fit okay, I would like it if they made the pressure hose 1 inch longer. I detached my pump from the bracket to get the pressure fitting started in the pump. I am going to zip tie them together above the exhaust, no clamp will be necessary because I positioned the pressure hose in such a way that it is support by the shock tower and clear from exhaust. I will probably invested in some heat tubing for the lines just in case. They're kind of ugly, and routing them the way I did seemed to work the best


The pitman arm seemed to not sit as far down the splines as I expected. It is keyed so I know it was put on correctly, so I guess this is part of their design.

After burping the system in the driveway for a couple minutes and retightening the fittings, both hose fittings on the box are just barely seeping fluid. I have both cranked down really tight, and by seeping I don't even mean dripping. I drove the car for 15 minutes using the steering a lot and the area around the fitting was just starting to get moist. I am going to call Borgeson anyway so I will ask about this...the box uses brass seats that are loose inside the inlet and outlet ports. Not sure if thats normal, but I wasn't used to it. Borgeson said that's how they're designed to seal.

During the test drive first thing I noticed is that I definitely need an alignment now. *At where their respective centers are, the stock box and the borgeson position the pitman arm in a different location* . You want your wheel to be perfectly centered with the BOX first, so that the gears are tight at center, then you align your car to where the center is.

Lock to lock is still there with the Borgeson installed. In fact I was wondering if anyone's ever ground their aftermarket strut rod steering stops to get a little more steering angle?? I am sure the street or track adjustable units I have eliminated some turning radius because of their beefy steering stops.

Back to driving impressions: The weight of the wheel feels fine, not light which is fantastic. Somewhere in the steering system I am getting bind now. There are tight spots unrelated to the steering box gears, that I suspect are being caused by one or both of two things: the box will require shimming to align it OR I will have to trim the steering column tube to prevent rubbing.

I think the box requires shimming, because in the driveway the rag joint/column connection looks good as far as I can tell. However so does the box positioning, so like I said earlier a call to Borgeson is at hand. Lastly the pump is not nearly as quiet as I suspected. This might be due to the belt alignment being slightly off, however I doubt it and will see after that's corrected.

So for the skimmers:
1) Column needs to be collapsed all the way apparently
2) Hoses probably not the best quality
3) Reeeeally wish they marked their boxes at rag joint for center/made them a little less long
4) Pump mount not great, TBD on pump...

shelbymustangdan

Thanks for posting this info. I'm slowly putting my 67 coupe back together and I will be doing the same install in a month or so. I am also looking to buy and install the Borgeson "direct swap" black powder coated steering column (part# 1120645051). (I think they are made by ididit) Supposedly it is made for the power steering conversion box. I have my old column, but I thought with an all new suspension, the Borgeson conversion, why not finish it up with a new column with new components.

Good luck with the rest of the project!

MonsterBilly

I can add a little to this. Now my car is a 66 so it is a bit different. My install went smooth. At the time I installed it I also switched to a serpentine belt system using March mounts and brackets.

My install was simple because I did not have a collapsible steering column. The 65-66 has a steering shaft that is part of the factory steering box. For my conversion, I cut the steering shaft right at the box and removed them in two pieces.
then I had to mark my column, remove it and trim to make it shorter allowing room for the rag joint. Next the column is held in place with a crappy bracket and a hose clamp provided by borgensen.

Once installed I had it aligned and was good to go. The feeling is tight. it takes much more effort than the factory power steering. This is nice, the factory power assist steering was sloppy and too easy. The borgensen has a good feel. The only complaint I have is the poor return to center and a little pulling from the road crown. I have tried several different alignments but it is there no matter which one I use.

But one thing you mentioned holds true for my system as well. The hoses are a little too short. You are totally correct. One inch longer on the hoses would be perfect. It would get them up out of the way of the manifold, in my case headers.

The pump I bought was from Tuff Stuff and is really quiet. The only problem I ran into was the fact that I ordered one with a curved return line mount instead of straight. DONT DO THIS. it makes for a crappy bend in the return line. the one you have is straight and is the way to go.

groho

Need to add my two cents to this one. doing my Borgeson swap with an IDITIT column, found a very critical issue. Rag joints and couplers are NOT created equal! IDITIT u-joint coupler is nearly 1/2" longer then a rag joint. As it is, the conversion places the column nearly flush with the fire wall. Using a U-joint coupler places the column inside the firewall (not good). You must use either a direct coupler or rag joint so the column extends into the eng compartment.

guitarman376

I wanted to give a quick update to this thread. So I finally got the borgeson box centered and installed, but now it is apparent I will have to pull steering column out in order to trim the end off because it rubs on the rag joint. If there were a few things I would summarize to those thinking about this conversion it would be the following:
If you have a collapsible column, installation is NOT as easy as just tapping the column up 1-2 inches like I've read. It's more like 5 inches, which then requires modications to the column.
The hoses included in the kit are both too short by at least an inch, and some of the bends in the hard line could be done in a better way for routing purposes and for fluid flow. This is actually my biggest problem with their kit (hope you're listening Borgeson...)
Despite not being as loud as the ford power steering pump, the borgeson is still pretty noisy and there is some whining noise that comes from the box itself.
Lastly, at its center point the steering box positions the pitman arm in a different location (relative to the original box) thus requiring a toe adjustment to make the car semi-driveable. I was running the baer tracker kit on my original setup, which oddly needed modifications to make the toe proper. Now that I have switched to the borgeson setup, there is a chance that I will have to repurchase tie rods at least since the modified baer kit may not engage enough threads for proper use.

guitarman376

In an effort not to thread-abandon: I removed my steering column for the first time, which was suprisingly easy, and trimmed the small tube that extends towards the rag joint. Now there is no rubbing. I just wish this type of thing was mentioned in install instructions, which is why I am posting all my information. I don't think I will have to re-buy tie rods either which is great. Car is not aligned, but power steering is doing it's job so far, time will tell.

guitarman376

Now is an appropriate time to update this thread for potential borgeson-buyers. So far I like mine, even though I only have 30 miles or so on the car with it. On center there is still some play like factory, but it seems to be getting better as the box breaks in more.

The way I would describe it is that when you are cruising the steering feel to keep the car pointed straight is not great (very light). However this seems to be more a factor of hydraulic fluid pressure than play, because the car is tracking straight and returning to center pretty well so far. It better be with the alignment I am running (6.8+ caster!). My biggest complaint with the kit so far is that the pump is not as quiet as the internet would make you think. Quieter than stock maybe, but only slightly. I still would go with the saginaw pump as they have a superior design over the Ford ones. I suspect that better quality hoses would quiet everything down some from better flow design. The hoses in the kit are a joke, and for the kit price Borgeson really should invest more design into them. They are cut too short, and by the box they could be designed better. But for what they are they are cheap, custom hoses are $$$.

Once your are mid turn, the feel seems too light to me, but it is responsive and has some feel. I may purchase a kit for the saginaw pump to increase steering feel by reducing pressure/flow. The valves are adjustable, but it requires removal/disassembly which I am not going to do for a long time.

I wanted to make a side note on idler arms since this is a hot topic regarding the borgeson conversion. Before starting the swap I couldn't decide if I wanted to go roller or stock style. People claiming that the rubber idler helped their car return to center would warn others not to use roller idler. Some people with roller idlers said their car returns to center fine. There was no consistency to people's experiences online... I always read up as much as I can before doing anything major like a swap like this, but when the information is just crossing over the whole time I make my best judgement and try it out.

I had a feeling that people with return to center issues had one of the following going on:
not enough caster/poor alignment
steering box either too tight or not broken in
unproperly torqued steering components
unproperly centered the steering box before installation
bent steering components or worn items

Although I think many cases of the borgeson centering issue can be solved by addressing the above, I think something else comes into play here as well. My steering linkage consists of a baer tracker kit, 70' spindles, 70' manual CL, 70' inner tie rods, and a ORP roller idler.

Upon linkage install, right away I noticed something that made me curious. I had the inner and outer tie rods were installed, and the CL was attached to the steering box. I went to install the center link to the idler arm, but noticed the steering box itself pitched the centerlink such that the tapered hole for the idler arm was angled slightly compared to the idler shaft. This means one of 3 things. Either the centerlinks are designed for this bind to occur with the factory rubber idler, the CL I purchased new is not cast correctly, or maybe since the borgeson box repositions the pitman arm (see above) it introduces this bind.

The angle of the center link relative to the idler would get better as the steering is turned, hence why mid turn steering feel is fine. This makes me think it was part of the original steering linkage design and this leads me to believe this is a great part of the reason people have the centering issue. Think about it...caster (and toe to a degree) is what makes a car self/center. If you're pretty sure your alignment is adequate but your car isn't centering, there is bind in the system somewhere. Either in the box itself or the linkage, and after finishing my install and setup of this system I firmly believe this bind is why the roller idlers negatively affect centering. The rubber in the idler takes into account this bind but the roller one can't because there is no deflection like with rubber. So it makes the wheels/tires have to work harder through this bind to center the steering system. Truthfully I can't believe no one has mentioned this on any of the threads I've read.

To reiterate, I believe this bind is often why centering becomes an unresolved issue with borgeson boxes. I don't know if its caused by the roller idler itself not deflecting or if its caused by the repositioned pitman arm from the borgeson box. My plan is to put some miles on the car and see what changes. If the centering doesn't get to where I would like, I will consider a factory styler idler. Since I am on the extreme end for caster with a classic mustang, it's safe to say that while caster is a factor, I think this bind is the primary reason for poor centering.

guitarman376

I realized I should be clear about my cars centering since that's peoples major concern. My car is returning to center almost perfectly, and cruises well on the freeway. However the last 5% or so of the centering has to be done manually still, and in my case caster has nothing to do with it. I am nearly certain it is bind from the roller idler. If someone built custom roller idlers that took into account the proper centerlink taper angle, I imagine the centering issues would basically disappear and I bet on center steering feel would improve too.

humpbackshooter

G-man.....stupid ?.......because I have not heard of a rag-joint. What is it? I asked one of the gearheads here at work and he said the same thing. In reading....I'm thinking......U-joint or something close. Can you pin point it in the pics.

thanks,
Hump.

humpbackshooter

I have a I6 with A/C that the wife want P/S installed too. Sooooo I might be going down this street too. Still alittle ways off in my case though.

Hump.